Do you have high blood pressure?

[BanditNOLIMIT]

I have been struggling with some borderline serious hypertension over the past week or two. I decided to swallow my pride and seek professional assessment. I'm discontinuing my blackmarket meds and have started on 25mg of HCTZ as of yesterday. I'm not sure how acutely the diuretic is supposed to help but I haven't had any improved readings yet. It definitely is doing what it's supposed to though, the scale was down 3lbs this morning. The next step will likely be to start Ramipril.

I also discovered that my estrogen is tanked, I have no idea for how long. Long enough that I've kind of just accepted feeling like shit as normal. I'm not sure if this could be having an effect on this blood pressure issue (directly or indirectly)

 

[Synyster]

How long until you notice its effects and do you use the recommended dosage of one a day?

For sure within a week.

Likely about 3 or 4 days.

1 pill a day is fine for most people. I know big guys who need to do 1 pill eod bc it drops their BP too low.
I haven't had to go over 2 pills a day ever.

When my BP was pretty bad (175/95) I'd start by taking 1 pill for 5 days or so. Then 2 pills for maybe a month or two. Then I could bring it back down to 1 pill or 1 pill eod.

The issue is.. There are a few different carditone products. I only vouch for the one from ayush as their ingredients are different than the rest. The ayush carditone was discontinued right around when covid started so ud have to buy on ebay and it got a tad pricey. It's still pricey but Atleast a bit easier to find I think

 

[Synyster]

I have been struggling with some borderline serious hypertension over the past week or two. I decided to swallow my pride and seek professional assessment. I'm discontinuing my blackmarket meds and have started on 25mg of HCTZ as of yesterday. I'm not sure how acutely the diuretic is supposed to help but I haven't had any improved readings yet. It definitely is doing what it's supposed to though, the scale was down 3lbs this morning. The next step will likely be to start Ramipril.

I also discovered that my estrogen is tanked, I have no idea for how long. Long enough that I've kind of just accepted feeling like shit as normal. I'm not sure if this could be having an effect on this blood pressure issue (directly or indirectly)

Hctz will work for sure but it will interfere with gains a bit as Ur kinda in a constant battle with semi dehydration at all times while on it.

It's not a bad idea to have around while on AAS tho as sometimes the cheat meals tend to add up quick and u've taken in 5x as much Sodium as u should and now have issues breathing lol. That's a good time for a mild diuretic.. Or in Ur case when bp is super high.

Ramipril is what most Doctors in Canada like To start ppl on and it's fine. It's an ace inhibitor. I would suggest to your doc to out you on telmisartan instead. Which is an ARB. Essentially similar to an ace inhibitor... They're very interchangeable. Same low side affect profile etc.
The advantage with an ARB is it works by blocking angiotension II in the RAAS system of Ur body. Which is directly stimulated by using AAS and is what causes the vast majority of water retention on cycle. It's not estrogen related in lost cases. So, in other words going on an arb will lower Ur BP and keep water retention down while on gear and u don't need to use an ai and deal with the issues there. It will also lower inflammation, oxidative stress which means it's very cardio, brain, and kidney protective.
The reason for telmisartan out of all the drugs in the ARB family is bc telmisartan in particular has a long half life for 1x daily dosing. It works on the Ppar pathway as an agonist so it improves Lipids pretty greatly in some people. Raising hdl and lowering ldl. Improving insulin sensitivity and several other important factors to bodybuilders. Infact, I like to suggest that guys who take gear should be on telmisartan anyway, regardless of if they have high BP or not due to the plethora of other massive health benefits. Due to its mechanism of action if your BP is fine, taking an ARB will not lower it farther so all the more reason for every bodybuilder using gear to take it year round.

 

[BanditNOLIMIT]

Hctz will work for sure but it will interfere with gains a bit as Ur kinda in a constant battle with semi dehydration at all times while on it.

It's not a bad idea to have around while on AAS tho as sometimes the cheat meals tend to add up quick and u've taken in 5x as much Sodium as u should and now have issues breathing lol. That's a good time for a mild diuretic.. Or in Ur case when bp is super high.

Ramipril is what most Doctors in Canada like To start ppl on and it's fine. It's an ace inhibitor. I would suggest to your doc to out you on telmisartan instead. Which is an ARB. Essentially similar to an ace inhibitor... They're very interchangeable. Same low side affect profile etc.
The advantage with an ARB is it works by blocking angiotension II in the RAAS system of Ur body. Which is directly stimulated by using AAS and is what causes the vast majority of water retention on cycle. It's not estrogen related in lost cases. So, in other words going on an arb will lower Ur BP and keep water retention down while on gear and u don't need to use an ai and deal with the issues there. It will also lower inflammation, oxidative stress which means it's very cardio, brain, and kidney protective.
The reason for telmisartan out of all the drugs in the ARB family is bc telmisartan in particular has a long half life for 1x daily dosing. It works on the Ppar pathway as an agonist so it improves Lipids pretty greatly in some people. Raising hdl and lowering ldl. Improving insulin sensitivity and several other important factors to bodybuilders. Infact, I like to suggest that guys who take gear should be on telmisartan anyway, regardless of if they have high BP or not due to the plethora of other massive health benefits. Due to its mechanism of action if your BP is fine, taking an ARB will not lower it farther so all the more reason for every bodybuilder using gear to take it year round.

Yeah, I'm hoping to cut the diuretic out eventually but at the moment, my main priority is just lowering this damn BP.

So this is where things get a bit muddy. I have been using what I believe to be real, legit telmisartan for about 4 months. Starting at 20mg daily and worked up to 60mg as my BP continued to climb. Even at 60mg I was experiencing concerning levels. So it's hard to say what the deal is. Maybe theyre sugar pills, maybe my dose was too low, maybe I just don't respond well to it. Do you know, is it possible to use ACE inhibitors AND ARBs simultaneously to reap the benefits of both?

 

[Synyster]

Yeah, I'm hoping to cut the diuretic out eventually but at the moment, my main priority is just lowering this damn BP.

So this is where things get a bit muddy. I have been using what I believe to be real, legit telmisartan for about 4 months. Starting at 20mg daily and worked up to 60mg as my BP continued to climb. Even at 60mg I was experiencing concerning levels. So it's hard to say what the deal is. Maybe theyre sugar pills, maybe my dose was too low, maybe I just don't respond well to it. Do you know, is it possible to use ACE inhibitors AND ARBs simultaneously to reap the benefits of both?

You can use both yes.

I think most doctors would instead use a calcium Chanel blocker blocker instead like amlodipine. Or perhaps a beta blocker like nebivolol but I think that's kinda old medicine to use a beta blocker for BP but maybe. Or back the hctz...
Hctz is fine to be on if it works.. U just need to really be on top of hydration.


I know a dude who is on hctz, telmisartan and amlodipine all at lower doses for his BP and that recipe worked better than full doses of any of the three.

 

[BanditNOLIMIT]

You can use both yes.

I think most doctors would instead use a calcium Chanel blocker blocker instead like amlodipine. Or perhaps a beta blocker like nebivolol but I think that's kinda old medicine to use a beta blocker for BP but maybe. Or back the hctz...
Hctz is fine to be on if it works.. U just need to really be on top of hydration.


I know a dude who is on hctz, telmisartan and amlodipine all at lower doses for his BP and that recipe worked better than full doses of any of the three.

Good to know
I'm definitely consistent about my hydration.
5.5-6L of water
1/4 tsp sea salt per meal
700mg magnesium spread out through out the day.
I'm in the 195-200lbs range. Do those numbers seem adequate? I guess time will tell based on my pumps, fullness, thirst etc

 

[Sorbate]

without supplements my blood pressure is categorically low.

on test or deca or tBol i am fine with no increase in blood pressure. but these cycles fail to give me the gains i want.

so i run tren 700-1200mg/wk depending on the cycle. i am a big fan of primobolan 700mg/wk. winstrol is my go-to oral compound 50mg/day. These all give me high blood pressure. my GP gives me pills to control the blood pressure because he knows its only temporary for the weeks i am cycling. if i had the money i'd stay on gh for another 4 years, but that too raises my blood pressure beyond 4iu's/day.

diet MUST be under control.

2x each day split cardio GOTTA happen.

i am currently off cycle and my blood pressure is low (it is a family trait). i do not drink coffee or other stims so getting started in mornings is slow. and at work my performance cannot compare to my colleagues who use caffeine. the workplace had to get used to my slow but steady approach to my work because i am not amp'd up on coffee or pepsi or whatever by 7am when work starts.

Some people run around all hyped up for an hour, talking their ass off then burn out and drag ass, lol. Others are steady and keep moving all day and are consistent.
I don't find one to be any worse than the other.

In some situations I like the steady guy because at least he is consistent and I know exactly what to expect when scheduling work.

 

[Sorbate]

Hctz will work for sure but it will interfere with gains a bit as Ur kinda in a constant battle with semi dehydration at all times while on it.

It's not a bad idea to have around while on AAS tho as sometimes the cheat meals tend to add up quick and u've taken in 5x as much Sodium as u should and now have issues breathing lol. That's a good time for a mild diuretic.. Or in Ur case when bp is super high.

Ramipril is what most Doctors in Canada like To start ppl on and it's fine. It's an ace inhibitor. I would suggest to your doc to out you on telmisartan instead. Which is an ARB. Essentially similar to an ace inhibitor... They're very interchangeable. Same low side affect profile etc.
The advantage with an ARB is it works by blocking angiotension II in the RAAS system of Ur body. Which is directly stimulated by using AAS and is what causes the vast majority of water retention on cycle. It's not estrogen related in lost cases. So, in other words going on an arb will lower Ur BP and keep water retention down while on gear and u don't need to use an ai and deal with the issues there. It will also lower inflammation, oxidative stress which means it's very cardio, brain, and kidney protective.
The reason for telmisartan out of all the drugs in the ARB family is bc telmisartan in particular has a long half life for 1x daily dosing. It works on the Ppar pathway as an agonist so it improves Lipids pretty greatly in some people. Raising hdl and lowering ldl. Improving insulin sensitivity and several other important factors to bodybuilders. Infact, I like to suggest that guys who take gear should be on telmisartan anyway, regardless of if they have high BP or not due to the plethora of other massive health benefits. Due to its mechanism of action if your BP is fine, taking an ARB will not lower it farther so all the more reason for every bodybuilder using gear to take it year round

Is there a staring guide of how much telmisartan to use?
Also where do you get it? If its from UGL, sorry but I havn't looked at a list in a long time.

 

[jackson]

A second comment, many moons ago there was thread about essential supplements or something like that and I listed a bunch with science behind them - double blind placebo studies - for issues many guys/gals in this lifestyle may have. Some member tried to poke fun at me asking if I owned supplements stores due to the cost to take those. Considering I put health priority one I may take supplements daily and others may not but I have significantly cut down based on my blood work. Ignorance is not bliss and you may never know about a liver issue until your eyes turn yellow or blood issues until your body tells you to call an ambulance.

There is a lot of snake oil out there and I avoid supplements if they don't have multiple double blind studies by a third party with enough participants it is not an anomaly outcome. I spend a lot on s-AME because I believe in it. I also take Life Extenson Black seed oil/Nigella Sativa daily.
My point is if that member wants to talk about it again, happy to. I forgot to go back and comment but lost track of the thread.

I say this because I give a fuck - you only have one life and if you mess it up and lose your health you may survive but may not live. The things that made you happy, you can no longer do. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Many are against the supplement industry and in general I am too but there are good ones - the question is are you willing to put the time in to do the research to find the ones to help your longevity and health?
Just food for thought.

Hi Goldenrod I would love to know more about high blood pressure meds. I'm a fan of black seed oil as well cept I didn't know it helped blood pressure specifically. I know it as a cure all so I'm not surprised. I'm currently at work but I will search for your other comments on blood pressure. Currently natural and still have higher than normal BP. I check it once a week. I will know check it 3 times a week and see if black seed oil drops it. I'm at 135 over 85 which is higher than I want.

Cheers

 

[Bigbear]

without supplements my blood pressure is categorically low.

on test or deca or tBol i am fine with no increase in blood pressure. but these cycles fail to give me the gains i want.

so i run tren 700-1200mg/wk depending on the cycle. i am a big fan of primobolan 700mg/wk. winstrol is my go-to oral compound 50mg/day. These all give me high blood pressure. my GP gives me pills to control the blood pressure because he knows its only temporary for the weeks i am cycling. if i had the money i'd stay on gh for another 4 years, but that too raises my blood pressure beyond 4iu's/day.

diet MUST be under control.

2x each day split cardio GOTTA happen.

i am currently off cycle and my blood pressure is low (it is a family trait). i do not drink coffee or other stims so getting started in mornings is slow. and at work my performance cannot compare to my colleagues who use caffeine. the workplace had to get used to my slow but steady approach to my work because i am not amp'd up on coffee or pepsi or whatever by 7am when work starts.

It's mind blowing the amount of gear you guys use. How many lbs of muscle do you put on each cycle and keep on? I make gains on trt with 100mg of Primo added on you guys must be fucking monsters walking sideways through doors lol

 

[jackson]

I don't like doctors in my opinion there sellouts and quacks. I prefer holistic approach. Not saying this works but perhaps frequencies can help.

 

[Synyster]

Good to know
I'm definitely consistent about my hydration.
5.5-6L of water
1/4 tsp sea salt per meal
700mg magnesium spread out through out the day.
I'm in the 195-200lbs range. Do those numbers seem adequate? I guess time will tell based on my pumps, fullness, thirst etc

That seems pretty good to me. Definitely better than what I do.

 

[Synyster]

Is there a staring guide of how much telmisartan to use?
Also where do you get it? If its from UGL, sorry but I havn't looked at a list in a long time.

20mg is starting dose.
I've seen a cpl ugls recently carrying it but I'd just get it from a doctor.
You can go to a walk in clinic or Ur gp and say Ur BP is high and u want to try telmisartan specifically. To ensure Ur BP is high u could take a lot of caffeine first or Ur pre workout. Or if Ur on gear u likely already have high BP.

If u use gear u should unquestionably have Ur own BP cuff at home. So u should know what Ur numbers are at

 

[Goldenrod]

Hi Goldenrod I would love to know more about high blood pressure meds. I'm a fan of black seed oil as well cept I didn't know it helped blood pressure specifically. I know it as a cure all so I'm not surprised. I'm currently at work but I will search for your other comments on blood pressure. Currently natural and still have higher than normal BP. I check it once a week. I will know check it 3 times a week and see if black seed oil drops it. I'm at 135 over 85 which is higher than I want.

Cheers

Jackson - if it isn't dangerously high (then see a doctor) there are others but these are the meds/supps I would recommend for BP issues:
1. Nigella Sativa - 1000 to 3000 mg a day in two doses AM and PM.
2. Fish oil - combines 10,000 mg of EPA and DHA. The other numbers don't matter, read for the EPA and DHA content.
3. Ubiquinol if your getting older (older than 35), Q10 if under 35. Ubiquinol is an easier type of Q10 to absorb to put it in a short explanation. I have used both and had best benefits when using both. Combined up to 300 mg once a day. I'm sure you could go higher or try lower.
4. low dose enteric coated aspirin taken before bed. You have to take it at night but don't if you have ulcers or bleeding issues.

Most important is don't add all at once - add one and see how you do in a week with 3-4 readings a week. If no luck, add in another with the same idea as the former.
I have never needed anything else other than mentioned but @Sorbate has used hawthorne tea I think with success. Those are just the ones I prefer.
Carleson's fish oil is expensive but it is one of the best - just my opinion. Has high EPA/DHA content per pill so you don't need to take as many. If you start taking 10,000 mg of combined EPA/DHA - I reduce it slowly if my BP remains good until I hit 2000 and I keep it at 2000 for the anti-inflammatory (pain) and heart benefits.

Keep in mind - this is all opinion and not medical advice. I am not a doctor and I recommend people be careful with anything they take.

 

[Sorbate]

@Goldenrod it was hysbiscus tea that I tried. It worked but its much easier to take a couple pills than drink a couple cups of tea a day and have to brew it and so on.

 

[Sorbate]

20mg is starting dose.
I've seen a cpl ugls recently carrying it but I'd just get it from a doctor.
You can go to a walk in clinic or Ur gp and say Ur BP is high and u want to try telmisartan specifically. To ensure Ur BP is high u could take a lot of caffeine first or Ur pre workout. Or if Ur on gear u likely already have high BP.

If u use gear u should unquestionably have Ur own BP cuff at home. So u should know what Ur numbers are at

Damn that won't work for me. After 16 mg of ephedrine and a cup of coffee on a cycle I am never over 136/83 at the most.

See I am larger than the average dude, but not huge. I hink thats why I have been able to keep it under control. Normally I am 120ish/under 80

I just wanted to experiment. I'll check out the UGL's,

thx

 

[BanditNOLIMIT]

You can go to a walk in clinic or Ur gp and say Ur BP is high and u want to try telmisartan specifically

This approach is hit or miss in my opinion and from my experience. Too many doctors have this ridiculous ego and become instantly triggered when patients wants to provide any input or feedback. That may just be my experience though.

I've come to the conclusion that it's better to tell them that you've had a script for it in the past but have been unable to refill it for whatever reason you decide to use.

 

[Bigbear]

W

Jackson - if it isn't dangerously high (then see a doctor) there are others but these are the meds/supps I would recommend for BP issues:
1. Nigella Sativa - 1000 to 3000 mg a day in two doses AM and PM.
2. Fish oil - combines 10,000 mg of EPA and DHA. The other numbers don't matter, read for the EPA and DHA content.
3. Ubiquinol if your getting older (older than 35), Q10 if under 35. Ubiquinol is an easier type of Q10 to absorb to put it in a short explanation. I have used both and had best benefits when using both. Combined up to 300 mg once a day. I'm sure you could go higher or try lower.
4. low dose enteric coated aspirin taken before bed. You have to take it at night but don't if you have ulcers or bleeding issues.

Most important is don't add all at once - add one and see how you do in a week with 3-4 readings a week. If no luck, add in another with the same idea as the former.
I have never needed anything else other than mentioned but @Sorbate has used hawthorne tea I think with success. Those are just the ones I prefer.
Carleson's fish oil is expensive but it is one of the best - just my opinion. Has high EPA/DHA content per pill so you don't need to take as many. If you start taking 10,000 mg of combined EPA/DHA - I reduce it slowly if my BP remains good until I hit 2000 and I keep it at 2000 for the anti-inflammatory (pain) and heart benefits.

Keep in mind - this is all opinion and not medical advice. I am not a doctor and I recommend people be careful with anything they take.

What brand of fish oil do you take? Highest dose I can find is carlsons 1600mg.

 

[Goldenrod]

W

What brand of fish oil do you take? Highest dose I can find is carlsons 1600mg.

Same - I think Carleson's is the best. I got the name from @Funnyman reading one of his posts. I researched the company and that is the brand I use all the time. Are they the best - who knows but their EPA/DHA content is high per pill so they appear expensive but really aren't that bad.

 

[Bigbear]

Same - I think Carleson's is the best. I got the name from @Funnyman reading one of his posts. I researched the company and that is the brand I use all the time. Are they the best - who knows but their EPA/DHA content is high per pill so they appear expensive but really aren't that bad.

Vasceepa sounds good too but I think it's perscription only. I might ask my doc about it.