Yeah but....

[Goldenrod]

As for the discussion on warm up / stretching, my philosophy is whatever allows you to keep going without injuries is what you should do. Trial and error to figure it out.
The Bulgarian powerlifters believed and it is in books that stretching before getting under heavy weight is bad because I could stretch your tendons and ligaments and cause an injury. Are they correct?
I have a warm up routine I do for 15 minutes before every workout - it is mostly due to a shoulder injury but found the 4 stretch, warm ups have helped me avoid injuries - I'm reluctant to write that as I use progressive overload but know when to say enough even if you didn't do as much as last time.
As for building muscle - regardless of stretching before / warming up the muscles, whatever keeps you lifting will be the best in the long term. That is an opinion, not gospel.
There are endless websites that talk about stretching to avoid delayed muscle soreness but I don't judge my workouts by soreness the next day or two as a badge of honour. If I can feel the muscle being worked and the feeling isn't 'bad' pain then it is a good exercise for my physiology. I will continue with that exercise until I have hit the weight that I deem may cause an injury. Deload for a few workouts or change exercises.

You can grow going heavy and lower reps and you can grow with higher reps and lower weights. Some muscles (for me) respond to higher reps thus lower weight for growth. I'm not power lifting, I am body building hence the weight I move is irrelevant to me. If you can feel the muscle working and take it to failure or past, I suspect you will make gains pending you are providing the fuel for growth (food) and getting adequate rest.

Regardless of all the articles, I will always warm up prior and do some stretching for specific areas I hurt in the past - that is what works for me but it may not for you. Keep in mind, I am not 25 anymore and am more prone to injuries as I age. Proper form during the exercise, even if it means lower weight, is #1 in my books. Every time I decide to go heavier to point I use improper form, something inevitably stops me with pain/minor injury.

Just one person's opinion and everyone should do what works for them. I am not blessed with genetics to work out hard 6 days a week regardless of PED's. I prefer 2 days on 1 days off, 1 day on 1 day off, rinse repeat. On off days I still stretch and often hit the heavy bag or BOB. If I have a partner with me, we can work on focus training and get a decent workout in without concern for injury. That latter statement takes for granted you don't have an injury now. I have torn meniscus and am not getting surgery so I limit the types of kicks with that leg.

 

[Bagua]

If you want to learn about stretching, read Stretching Scientifically by Tom Kurz. It turned how I trained on its head, and I was always flexible like a slinky. Yeah, but why do you need super flexibility or the ability to kick hard to the head?

 

[Trenbolone&Cheese]

stretching helps me with power in sports and reduces risk of injury. never even thought that it would impact gains.
i’d happily trade 5% or whatever of gains to remain injury free.

 

[faller]

I have been taking NAC 1200 mg a day with Astragulus and I am sure it is helping my kidneys. I bet by months end I will not have any protein in my urine.

I also think the NAC does more than the astragulus. Plus since I started taking NAC, my pumps while training are insane, like I'm on a cycle, but I am nonly on 125mg of test a week right now. Its cheap and you can buy it on amazon. Got nothing to lose.

Have you read anything on combining BP meds and NAC? Supposedly you’re supposed to monitor but not sure what it is we’re monitoring.

 

[jayetter]

I do whatever exercise with no weight first. I don't know if that's considered dynamic stretching but I'll go all out and do static stretches on rest days.

i do the same exercises with super low weight and add on

 

[Sorbate]

Have you read anything on combining BP meds and NAC? Supposedly you’re supposed to monitor but not sure what it is we’re monitoring.

I may have seen it, but I don’t use blood pressure meds, so I would have skipped over that. Sorry.

 

[gondar1]

This one is as old as @Bagua 's knuckle calluses.

"you should wait at least X hours/minutes to eat before working out because your blood will be drawn to your guts to help digestion and away from your muscles where it's needed for growth"

Yeah but...

First off I don't know if this is even true to any significant effect. If it is then where is the balance point? I can agree whole heartedly that stuffing yourself full of pasta or something to the extent that you would slog your bloated ass over to the couch instead of the skwat rack and slump down there with your pants unzipped semi-comatose for an hour ain't gonna go well.

But when I was in my prime if I waited more than about a half hour after eating to start lifting I would run out of steam after about an hour. I would drop my dish in the sink and walk out the door, be warming up a half hour later. If I was on the road I'd often still be walking in the gym wiping my face off from what I just ate.

These days I lean on HBCD a fair bit fwiw.

What's your knowledge/thoughts/experiences?

 

[Negan]

This one is as old as @Bagua 's knuckle calluses.

"you should wait at least X hours/minutes to eat before working out because your blood will be drawn to your guts to help digestion and away from your muscles where it's needed for growth"

Yeah but...

First off I don't know if this is even true to any significant effect. If it is then where is the balance point? I can agree whole heartedly that stuffing yourself full of pasta or something to the extent that you would slog your bloated ass over to the couch instead of the skwat rack and slump down there with your pants unzipped semi-comatose for an hour ain't gonna go well.

But when I was in my prime if I waited more than about a half hour after eating to start lifting I would run out of steam after about an hour. I would drop my dish in the sink and walk out the door, be warming up a half hour later. If I was on the road I'd often still be walking in the gym wiping my face off from what I just ate.

These days I lean on HBCD a fair bit fwiw.

What's your knowledge/thoughts/experiences?

When I was a strongman I was force feeding all the time, sometimes I ate tacos, donuts, burgers etc. between sets, bodybuilders always gave me dirty looks but then I'd pull 600lbs and eat again, occasionally I'd puke. Now I eat about 45mins max preworkout but it's like cottage cheese, yogurt berries and cereal mixed together.

 

[Musclemaker]

HGH pre workout. Releases glycogen for energy and leans you out. Love it.

 

[Cheapshot]

This one is as old as @Bagua 's knuckle calluses.

"you should wait at least X hours/minutes to eat before working out because your blood will be drawn to your guts to help digestion and away from your muscles where it's needed for growth"

Yeah but...

First off I don't know if this is even true to any significant effect. If it is then where is the balance point? I can agree whole heartedly that stuffing yourself full of pasta or something to the extent that you would slog your bloated ass over to the couch instead of the skwat rack and slump down there with your pants unzipped semi-comatose for an hour ain't gonna go well.

But when I was in my prime if I waited more than about a half hour after eating to start lifting I would run out of steam after about an hour. I would drop my dish in the sink and walk out the door, be warming up a half hour later. If I was on the road I'd often still be walking in the gym wiping my face off from what I just ate.

These days I lean on HBCD a fair bit fwiw.

What's your knowledge/thoughts/experiences?

I always felt the best eating a high calorie/ carb meal the night before and train in the morning. Post workout Im never hungry if I train intense. I have to wait a couple hours.

 

[animal-inside]

No judgement, my last doc was a 90 lb long distance runner and would take 4 400 mg tabs after massive training sessions. She always said IBUprofen is not a safe drug but of all the NSAIDS it was the safest she could find. Just can't take that much every day but periodic use should be OK and NSAIDS use to be prescribed like candy. Drugs like Feldene were prescribed for decades and saves a lot of people from pain but a lot of the ones I know either ended up back at the docs years later with holes in their stomach or intestines and never allowed to take a NSAID again or decreased kidney function. I admit I use low dose aspirin every other day at night for BP and for platelets but is a decision I made to take for my own safety as aspirin is a wonder drug for protecting the body in lower doses.

My friend who competed locally in strongman lived on the stuff, he claimsed to take 1/2 a bottle a day some days albeit he was 320 lbs until his kidneys stopped and he ended up in the hospital. This was a long time ago, and I am sure he said they kept giving him potassium until they started again and he was lucky there was no permanent damage.

I'm sure we've all heard/read stories about how most pro's are all hooked on painkillers. I'm sure they all started with taking something like IBprofen for a achy shoulder, but then it evolved into taking it more frequently for more aches and then spiraled from there..

I can honestly say when i was younger and lifting huge weights and being over 300lbs, I never had pain until my first round of tendonitis in my elbow.. I honestly never thought of taking a pain killer and instesd just took time off and figured out what was setting off. I was around 20? Then I had a shitty shoulder injury around 24 and again 26.. Again, no painkillers.. just stopped, took break etc.. I did get a cortizone injection around age 27 for the shoulder..

My point is, although it never occured to me to just hammer some pain killers and keep going, I'm sure I had such a stupid mindset to get big/huge/strong that I probably would have tried to see if I could still train if I just hammered the pain killers.

I just don't think taking pain killers to continue to train the body part that is hurting is smart..

I also have never taken pain killers for just general muscle pain due to lifting.. if my legs can barely get me up the stairs the day after a good leg work out, I'm happy and have never felt the need to take something to combat that muscle pain. I think some pro's end up taking pain killers to combat muscle pain brought on by working the muscle itself. Again, I don't think thats something someone should start doing.

No one would judge you for taking a NSAID in high dosages so you could put food on the table unless they were a prick.

A tylenol every once in a while but you couldn't pay me to take tylenol on a daily basis. The stuff kills more people than any other medication due to liver failure. Add I find it does fuck all except when I had a v high fever from a virus and had to bring it down. People go drinking and get shitfaced and to avoid a hangover take 2-3 extra strength Acetaminophen. It's not a wise combo as both are hard on the liver. Ever notice many liver studies with drugs to protect your liver are often done with Acetaminophen as the product to damage your liver. It depleted the body of glutathione.

I agree... tylenol is pretty damn harsh... so many ppl take it thinking it's not that bad because "its just tylenol".. My father took 2 extra strength tylenol everyday for years due to a old knee injury.. Finally a doctor figured out he did this for years and put a stop to it. He had his liver looked at and it's not in great shape likely due to the tylenol... There's lots of people who just don't know any better like him.

I had a pharmacist the other day actually tell me not to give my kids tylenol when they have nasty head aches from the flu.. he said just IB profen, not tylenol due to its harshness. I asked what if they have a fever, should I use it then.. he said only if the fever is over a specific temp (I can't recall) is it worth taking tylenol.

 

[Goldenrod]

I'm sure we've all heard/read stories about how most pro's are all hooked on painkillers. I'm sure they all started with taking something like IBprofen for a achy shoulder, but then it evolved into taking it more frequently for more aches and then spiraled from there..

I can honestly say when i was younger and lifting huge weights and being over 300lbs, I never had pain until my first round of tendonitis in my elbow.. I honestly never thought of taking a pain killer and instesd just took time off and figured out what was setting off. I was around 20? Then I had a shitty shoulder injury around 24 and again 26.. Again, no painkillers.. just stopped, took break etc.. I did get a cortizone injection around age 27 for the shoulder..

My point is, although it never occured to me to just hammer some pain killers and keep going, I'm sure I had such a stupid mindset to get big/huge/strong that I probably would have tried to see if I could still train if I just hammered the pain killers.

I just don't think taking pain killers to continue to train the body part that is hurting is smart..

I also have never taken pain killers for just general muscle pain due to lifting.. if my legs can barely get me up the stairs the day after a good leg work out, I'm happy and have never felt the need to take something to combat that muscle pain. I think some pro's end up taking pain killers to combat muscle pain brought on by working the muscle itself. Again, I don't think thats something someone should start doing.



I agree... tylenol is pretty damn harsh... so many ppl take it thinking it's not that bad because "its just tylenol".. My father took 2 extra strength tylenol everyday for years due to a old knee injury.. Finally a doctor figured out he did this for years and put a stop to it. He had his liver looked at and it's not in great shape likely due to the tylenol... There's lots of people who just don't know any better like him.

I had a pharmacist the other day actually tell me not to give my kids tylenol when they have nasty head aches from the flu.. he said just IB profen, not tylenol due to its harshness. I asked what if they have a fever, should I use it then.. he said only if the fever is over a specific temp (I can't recall) is it worth taking tylenol.

Morning - not sure if you are disagreeing with me or saying I said to take pain medication. I am against Tylenol (main cause of acute liver failure with shelf meds), NSAIDS (short term if needed but long term - hard on the kidneys and bleeding issues), Feldene which is a NSAID nearly killed a family member back when docs put patients on NSAIDS for decades. I was prescribed Oxycontinin and strong pain meds for accidents / not training injuries and stopped them cold turkey. Unpleasant for a few days but nothing major. I think I misread your comments and you agree pain meds that are available with and without scrips carry dangers. I did state if someone needs it to do their job to put food on the plate for their family, it is hard to judge that person - referring to a NSAID. All the same, CBD oil, BPC157, BCP and other options are available that appear to be safe but not used by the regular public as they don't have access to them or don't know about them.
Yes, we have all heard of pro athletes hooked on narcotic pain meds even when they do or don't need them. I do believe narcotic pain medications have a place in medicine for specific purposes but most docs now are being trained that the long term opioid daily dose is a last resort option and only if all other options have been exhausted. If that is the case, at minimum you will become physically addicted and if you ever want to come off, you will go through withdrawal. I have empathy for people who get hooked as I have seen it with good people and they needed help getting off long term pain meds like oxycontin. The docs were given false info, they prescribed it to the patient who was mislead, within a few weeks they would stop and go through hell. That is why I have empathy. This was during the phase the company lied and said it wasn't very addictive when they knew it was as addictive as many drugs we don't talk about on this forum.
Take care,
GR

 

[Goldenrod]

This one is as old as @Bagua 's knuckle calluses.

"you should wait at least X hours/minutes to eat before working out because your blood will be drawn to your guts to help digestion and away from your muscles where it's needed for growth"

Yeah but...

First off I don't know if this is even true to any significant effect. If it is then where is the balance point? I can agree whole heartedly that stuffing yourself full of pasta or something to the extent that you would slog your bloated ass over to the couch instead of the skwat rack and slump down there with your pants unzipped semi-comatose for an hour ain't gonna go well.

But when I was in my prime if I waited more than about a half hour after eating to start lifting I would run out of steam after about an hour. I would drop my dish in the sink and walk out the door, be warming up a half hour later. If I was on the road I'd often still be walking in the gym wiping my face off from what I just ate.

These days I lean on HBCD a fair bit fwiw.

What's your knowledge/thoughts/experiences?

funny this topic pops up as I was going to start a thread on it. I understand the concept of cream of rice for carbs right before a workout, bigger meal with protein after or whatever works best for you. The few competitive BBers, tend to train in this manner.
I train for reps now, no more PR's, I concentrate on form and reps. I do some different exercises like one arm floor presses with dumbbells and I do those for a specific reason. They help with the sport I enjoy the most plus they are excellent tricep and upper chest exercises.
I keep a log in my phone and if I train first thing in the morning before I eat anything, it appears I am always stronger and then have a large breakfast shortly after - eggs and a carb source as I digest eggs easily.
If I eat normal in the day and just workout when I can get to it, if it is an hour after a big meal of steak/potatoes and a veg - I can't lift the same weight/same reps.
My best workouts are either first thing in the AM with no food or 1/4 to 1/2 cup of cream of rice with a little protein powder for flavour 1/2 hour before training. Cream of rice is digested very quickly.
I agree with @Cheapshot - if it's leg day and I can barely walk when I'm done I don't feel like eating. I try to get a quality source of protein after at minimum but I don't feel like a large meal.

My thread was going to be about when people find they get the best workouts - not necessarily time, it could be around what you eat. Curious what others find.

 

[gondar1]

funny this topic pops up as I was going to start a thread on it....

that kind of stuff has happened to me a shit ton in the last 3-4 days, crazy unquestionably out of place stuff, so much so that I thought of posting about it when I posted itt earlier but I ran out of time. Too bad, would have been amusing, at least to me

I agree with @Cheapshot - if it's leg day and I can barely walk when I'm done I don't feel like eating. I try to get a quality source of protein after at minimum but I don't feel like a large meal. HBCD's and a little whey or EAA's might be a fit for you guys? Intra and post, I find it takes away my concern of having "empty blood" at one of the times your body can use it the most and it goes down easy, no need for a lot of volume

My thread was going to be about when people find they get the best workouts - not necessarily time, it could be around what you eat. Curious what others find.

It doesn't fit my schedule too well these days but I made my best gains ever when I was natty training late night then eat and sleep as fast as possible. I like to think that prioritizing immediate recovery was a large part of it but one can not ignore the generalized benefits of being full of piss and vinegar in your early 20's.

@animal-inside I really appreciate how you brought up using painkilllers and NSAID's for muscle soreness. I think it's ridiculous other than the exceptional circumstances like what Goldenrod mentions about covering responsibilities like feeding or otherwise taking care of your family.

I'd hate for this to be taken as ignorant or dangerous advice so no one should take it as advice - I personally am aware that I take a dangerous amount of this stuff however I put a major amount of priority of paying attention to signs of damage and prevention of it, supps, hydration etc. Bloodwork doesn't tell us everything but I now get a panel done every three months and kidneys and liver markers are in good shape for a long while now. I guess my layman's advice would be that if for whatever reason you are "having to use" them a serious effort to mitigate negative affects is probably prudent and possibly beneficial.

 

[Sorbate]

This one is as old as @Bagua 's knuckle calluses.

"you should wait at least X hours/minutes to eat before working out because your blood will be drawn to your guts to help digestion and away from your muscles where it's needed for growth"

Yeah but...

First off I don't know if this is even true to any significant effect. If it is then where is the balance point? I can agree whole heartedly that stuffing yourself full of pasta or something to the extent that you would slog your bloated ass over to the couch instead of the skwat rack and slump down there with your pants unzipped semi-comatose for an hour ain't gonna go well.

But when I was in my prime if I waited more than about a half hour after eating to start lifting I would run out of steam after about an hour. I would drop my dish in the sink and walk out the door, be warming up a half hour later. If I was on the road I'd often still be walking in the gym wiping my face off from what I just ate.

These days I lean on HBCD a fair bit fwiw.

What's your knowledge/thoughts/experiences?

I eat then drink a coffee and train. I like training on a full stomach, I feel stronger.

 

[Sorbate]

If you want to learn about stretching, read Stretching Scientifically by Tom Kurz. It turned how I trained on its head, and I was always flexible like a slinky. Yeah, but why do you need super flexibility or the ability to kick hard to the head?

Just because, lol.
I believe as we age we tighten up, so being flexible as long as possible is a great thing.

 

[Oldguyjiujitsu]

Always train on a full stomach…weights and jiu jitsu

I eat protein and rice one hour before. The carbs ensure a better pump

If i don’t eati don’t train well.

I also can’t train until i have had 2-3 meals in the day.

 

[animal-inside]

Morning - not sure if you are disagreeing with me or saying I said to take pain medication. I am against Tylenol (main cause of acute liver failure with shelf meds), NSAIDS (short term if needed but long term - hard on the kidneys and bleeding issues), Feldene which is a NSAID nearly killed a family member back when docs put patients on NSAIDS for decades. I was prescribed Oxycontinin and strong pain meds for accidents / not training injuries and stopped them cold turkey. Unpleasant for a few days but nothing major. I think I misread your comments and you agree pain meds that are available with and without scrips carry dangers. I did state if someone needs it to do their job to put food on the plate for their family, it is hard to judge that person - referring to a NSAID. All the same, CBD oil, BPC157, BCP and other options are available that appear to be safe but not used by the regular public as they don't have access to them or don't know about them.
Yes, we have all heard of pro athletes hooked on narcotic pain meds even when they do or don't need them. I do believe narcotic pain medications have a place in medicine for specific purposes but most docs now are being trained that the long term opioid daily dose is a last resort option and only if all other options have been exhausted. If that is the case, at minimum you will become physically addicted and if you ever want to come off, you will go through withdrawal. I have empathy for people who get hooked as I have seen it with good people and they needed help getting off long term pain meds like oxycontin. The docs were given false info, they prescribed it to the patient who was mislead, within a few weeks they would stop and go through hell. That is why I have empathy. This was during the phase the company lied and said it wasn't very addictive when they knew it was as addictive as many drugs we don't talk about on this forum.
Take care,
GR

I was agreeing with you 100%, but went off on my own tangent(s) as well I think lol.. sorry, I replied right before I fell asleep last night so probab;y wasn't worded the best.

 

[Goldenrod]

that kind of stuff has happened to me a shit ton in the last 3-4 days, crazy unquestionably out of place stuff, so much so that I thought of posting about it when I posted itt earlier but I ran out of time. Too bad, would have been amusing, at least to me

It doesn't fit my schedule too well these days but I made my best gains ever when I was natty training late night then eat and sleep as fast as possible. I like to think that prioritizing immediate recovery was a large part of it but one can not ignore the generalized benefits of being full of piss and vinegar in your early 20's.

@animal-inside I really appreciate how you brought up using painkilllers and NSAID's for muscle soreness. I think it's ridiculous other than the exceptional circumstances like what Goldenrod mentions about covering responsibilities like feeding or otherwise taking care of your family.

I'd hate for this to be taken as ignorant or dangerous advice so no one should take it as advice - I personally am aware that I take a dangerous amount of this stuff however I put a major amount of priority of paying attention to signs of damage and prevention of it, supps, hydration etc. Bloodwork doesn't tell us everything but I now get a panel done every three months and kidneys and liver markers are in good shape for a long while now. I guess my layman's advice would be that if for whatever reason you are "having to use" them a serious effort to mitigate negative affects is probably prudent and possibly beneficial.

Much to my surprise, I was talking to a local doctor who is an internal specialist and her comment on liver enzyme tests are great and help docs get a good picture but you can up to half your liver damaged before your enzymes change and are not in normal range. I'm blunt and ask a lot of questions so we chatted for a while about what she does for her patients who are at high risk - people on statins long term, patients that admit to taking harsh BBing compounds and are open with her. She gets blood work done every 3 months for her patients and a liver ultrasound done once per year. It isn't perfect but with our medical system, it is the best you can get unless you want to pay for more tests in the next Province.
A liver ultrasound takes 5 minutes max, I have one each year due to mild fatty liver from the virus mono. A full abdominal ultrasound is better but have to pay the private clinic unless you walk your doctor down a path that leads them to believe you need one. Talk about inflation - when I paid myself the first time it was $250 for all your organs (abdominal) and not it is 3-4 times that cost because people will pay instead of waiting.
We finally have local blood testing you can pay for if your a paranoid person like me and test everything with blood work after I start it. A CBC, liver and kidney panel is $45. They are supposed to charge you with a consult after over the phone in person but the Naturopath didn't last time. No idea what that costs.

@Oldguyjiujitsu - your workout system is the exact opposite of mine. It makes sense to do it the way you mention but I get the best workouts on an empty stomach and then a large meal after of easily digested protein.

 

[Palmer1991]

I was thinking of doing a small blast of 300test and 300npp... Yea but, my hairline is starting to recede a bit and I just started finasteride and I don't want to stop taking it plus with nandro Metabolites staying in your system for so long I don't know when it would be smart to start the finasteride again

Yea but when you're going to be on finasteride for the foreseeable future what's a few weeks off it gunna really do?

Like that? Lol