Yeah but....

[gondar1]

Not sure if this thread will get much traction but lets find out. Hoping to have an end of the day at the pub type discussion. I think it's got the possibility of turning into a good chat with derails.

It's a world with few absolutes. In our little corner there are especially few practices that can't be argued against due even if individuality is the only reason. Some of these I've put into the category of "not worth thinking about" but I can't get some others out of my mind. Maybe some discussion will raise some thoughts, provide some answers or dispel some myths. I could have also titled the thread "Yeah but how much?" or "what's seemingly makes sense but may not be worth doing?"

The thread title is meant to lead to a question through statements. Is there a "yeah but..."? Is the statement even true? How do you feel the balance of it is? etc

One example - Someone might say "deca is the best inject for hypertrophy". Yeah but it gives me gyno so I can't use it.

The one that prompted this post today - Ibuprofen use has a negative effect on gainz.
Yeah but how much? Some times My shoulder feels so fucked I wouldn't go WO without it so what's better in the long run, miss a WO or slightly reduce effectiveness?

Hope this makes enough sense. No, I'm not drunk.

 

[Sorbate]

Does ibuprofen really have a negative effect?

First study on google says no

The effects of ibuprofen on muscle hypertrophy, strength, and soreness during resistance training - PubMed

High doses of ibuprofen have been shown to inhibit muscle protein synthesis after a bout of resistance exercise. We determined the effect of a moderate dose of ibuprofen (400 mg x d(-1)) consumed on a daily basis after resistance training on muscle hypertrophy and strength. Twelve males and 6...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Now I can understand the thought behind this blunting the inflimation responce and delaying the bodies reaction, but if it was dramatic, you would think it wouldn’t be recommended to take it after surgery, so it wouldnt blunt the inflammation response to healing.

Also taking extra hormones likely negates this.

 

[gondar1]

Does ibuprofen really have a negative effect?

First study on google says no

The effects of ibuprofen on muscle hypertrophy, strength, and soreness during resistance training - PubMed

High doses of ibuprofen have been shown to inhibit muscle protein synthesis after a bout of resistance exercise. We determined the effect of a moderate dose of ibuprofen (400 mg x d(-1)) consumed on a daily basis after resistance training on muscle hypertrophy and strength. Twelve males and 6...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Now I can understand the thought behind this blunting the inflimation responce and delaying the bodies reaction, but if it was dramatic, you would think it wouldn’t be recommended to take it after surgery, so it wouldnt blunt the inflammation response to healing.

Also taking extra hormones likely negates this.

Thanks Sorb, that's the kind of discussion I'm hoping to see. Definitely up for debate. I bet your point about hormone supplementation will apply to a few scenarios.

 

[Negan]

From what I've read post workout inflammation is a driver for hypertrophy Ibuprofen does blunt that but I agree that it can help you train when you couldn't otherwise. I use anti-inflammatory drugs sparingly.

 

[faller]

Working out aside if it wasn’t for advil I’d have gone bankrupt long ago. My job was physical and brutal on the body, dealing with owies and oopsies was a daily thing and advil made it tolerable. There were days where I’d take upwards of 6,400 mg a day in 1,600mg increments.

…..…. Don’t judge….….

 

[Bigbear]

Ibuprofen also changes your blood and increases risk of high blood pressure, heart attack, stroke, clotting, asthma attack and gastrointestinal bleeding

 

[Bigbear]

https://www.goodrx.com/ibuprofen/ibuprofen-advil-raise-blood-pressure

 

[Bigbear]

Unless your liver compromised I'd choose tylenol over advil. No anti inflammatory effect

 

[Bigbear]

Does ibuprofen really have a negative effect?

First study on google says no

The effects of ibuprofen on muscle hypertrophy, strength, and soreness during resistance training - PubMed

High doses of ibuprofen have been shown to inhibit muscle protein synthesis after a bout of resistance exercise. We determined the effect of a moderate dose of ibuprofen (400 mg x d(-1)) consumed on a daily basis after resistance training on muscle hypertrophy and strength. Twelve males and 6...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Now I can understand the thought behind this blunting the inflimation responce and delaying the bodies reaction, but if it was dramatic, you would think it wouldn’t be recommended to take it after surgery, so it wouldnt blunt the inflammation response to healing.

Also taking extra hormones likely negates this.

Omega 3 and a hot bath or shower might counteract it too

 

[Sorbate]

I got a funny thought.
How much of an inflammation response does the body really need to start the cascade to heal?
Is there a point where too much inflammation actually has the opposite effect and taking Advil in that situation may increase healing?

Looking at this study, maybe Advil would be good on occasion for guys who body build all the time, could it increase our growth rate, lol

Divergent Roles of Inflammation in Skeletal Muscle Recovery From Injury

A transient increase in local pro-inflammatory cytokine expression following skeletal muscle injury mediates the repair and regeneration of damaged myofibers through myogenesis. Regenerative capacity is diminished and muscle wasting occurs, however, when ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[gondar1]

I find that a lot of the things that could potentially come up in this thread have become "common knowledge" due to a single (or a few) study that gets a bunch of headlines and subsequently parroted about. Another statement which may or may not prove out to be true but raises questions -

"Don't stretch before you lift because it will make you weaker. "

Iirc this pertains to static stretching but possibly dynamic too? I'm fairly certain I've seen a decent study that showed some particular type of strength loss around 10%.
So if true what a bout consideration of injury rate? My perception, however accurate, is that stretching, particularly dynamic stretching, lowers injury chances. So looking long term where's the balance? I'd trade a 10% loss of strength in any particular session away if it guaranteed a fair better amount of healthy time, I'd think that would gain me back that 10% over time.

PS - I hate stretching and don't do enough

 

[Sorbate]

I find that a lot of the things that could potentially come up in this thread have become "common knowledge" due to a single (or a few) study that gets a bunch of headlines and subsequently parroted about. Another statement which may or may not prove out to be true but raises questions -

"Don't stretch before you lift because it will make you weaker. "

Iirc this pertains to static stretching but possibly dynamic too? I'm fairly certain I've seen a decent study that showed some particular type of strength loss around 10%.
So if true what a bout consideration of injury rate? My perception, however accurate, is that stretching, particularly dynamic stretching, lowers injury chances. So looking long term where's the balance? I'd trade a 10% loss of strength in any particular session away if it guaranteed a fair better amount of healthy time, I'd think that would gain me back that 10% over time.

PS - I hate stretching and don't do enough

But does that loss in strength make you lose gains though?
I know I have had training sessions where i felt weak as fuck and the next couple days was more sore than normal because I pushed it harder because my lack of strength, thru more reps or what not.

 

[Negan]

It's my opinion that the stretch at the bottom of a full rom movement is ample stretching for the benefit. I usually pair one lift that really loads a.muscle with one that really stretches it. Like bench press followed by cable fly.

 

[Bigbear]

I do whatever exercise with no weight first. I don't know if that's considered dynamic stretching but I'll go all out and do static stretches on rest days.

 

[faller]

Unless your liver compromised I'd choose tylenol over advil. No anti inflammatory effect

For me I needed the anti inflammatory, still do lol. However since my kidneys took a severe beating not long ago advil is no longer an option.

 

[Goldenrod]

Working out aside if it wasn’t for advil I’d have gone bankrupt long ago. My job was physical and brutal on the body, dealing with owies and oopsies was a daily thing and advil made it tolerable. There were days where I’d take upwards of 6,400 mg a day in 1,600mg increments.

…..…. Don’t judge….….

No judgement, my last doc was a 90 lb long distance runner and would take 4 400 mg tabs after massive training sessions. She always said IBUprofen is not a safe drug but of all the NSAIDS it was the safest she could find. Just can't take that much every day but periodic use should be OK and NSAIDS use to be prescribed like candy. Drugs like Feldene were prescribed for decades and saves a lot of people from pain but a lot of the ones I know either ended up back at the docs years later with holes in their stomach or intestines and never allowed to take a NSAID again or decreased kidney function. I admit I use low dose aspirin every other day at night for BP and for platelets but is a decision I made to take for my own safety as aspirin is a wonder drug for protecting the body in lower doses.

My friend who competed locally in strongman lived on the stuff, he claimsed to take 1/2 a bottle a day some days albeit he was 320 lbs until his kidneys stopped and he ended up in the hospital. This was a long time ago, and I am sure he said they kept giving him potassium until they started again and he was lucky there was no permanent damage.
No one would judge you for taking a NSAID in high dosages so you could put food on the table unless they were a prick.

A tylenol every once in a while but you couldn't pay me to take tylenol on a daily basis. The stuff kills more people than any other medication due to liver failure. Add I find it does fuck all except when I had a v high fever from a virus and had to bring it down. People go drinking and get shitfaced and to avoid a hangover take 2-3 extra strength Acetaminophen. It's not a wise combo as both are hard on the liver. Ever notice many liver studies with drugs to protect your liver are often done with Acetaminophen as the product to damage your liver. It depleted the body of glutathione.

 

[Sorbate]

For me I needed the anti inflammatory, still do lol. However since my kidneys took a severe beating not long ago advil is no longer an option.

I have been taking NAC 1200 mg a day with Astragulus and I am sure it is helping my kidneys. I bet by months end I will not have any protein in my urine.

I also think the NAC does more than the astragulus. Plus since I started taking NAC, my pumps while training are insane, like I'm on a cycle, but I am nonly on 125mg of test a week right now. Its cheap and you can buy it on amazon. Got nothing to lose.

 

[Sorbate]

A tylenol every once in a while but you couldn't pay me to take tylenol on a daily basis. The stuff kills more people than any other medication due to liver failure. Add I find it does fuck all except when I had a v high fever from a virus and had to bring it down. People go drinking and get shitfaced and to avoid a hangover take 2-3 extra strength Acetaminophen. It's not a wise combo as both are hard on the liver. Ever notice many liver studies with drugs to protect your liver are often done with Acetaminophen as the product to damage your liver. It depleted the body of glutathione.

2 ephedrine in the morning is the best hang over cure. That way you can avoid the Advil or Tylenol.

 

[Goldenrod]

I have been taking NAC 1200 mg a day with Astragulus and I am sure it is helping my kidneys. I bet by months end I will not have any protein in my urine.

I also think the NAC does more than the astragulus. Plus since I started taking NAC, my pumps while training are insane, like I'm on a cycle, but I am nonly on 125mg of test a week right now. Its cheap and you can buy it on amazon. Got nothing to lose.

Those are the two main supplements I take for kidney health plus some other anti-inflammatory herbs and foods. Add NAC increases your glutathione so your getting added liver protection, it is a great combo.
I take 1000 mg of NAC twice a day and 1000 mg of astragalus twice a day. I use the NOW brand and it is inexpensive if you buy in the US. I would rather support local but when the cost is 3 times, even with the shipping and exchange and ordering other supplements at the same time like s-AME - it is still significantly cheaper. NAC is a supplement that seems to have a controversy around kidney protection. There are a lot of studies with dies before a CT or MRI that indicate it helps protect kidney issues and others show no difference. I suspect it provides protection but it depends on what your protecting your kidneys from (the kidney toxic substance). Much like liver supplements - NAC is amazing for Acetaminophen but it won't protect your liver from all toxins but I find it hard to fathom it doesn't help considering it will increase your glutathione.
Let us know how your blood results come out. Hope both help and you are 100% clear.

 

[Sorbate]

Those are the two main supplements I take for kidney health plus some other anti-inflammatory herbs and foods. Add NAC increases your glutathione so your getting added liver protection, it is a great combo.
I take 1000 mg of NAC twice a day and 1000 mg of astragalus twice a day. I use the NOW brand and it is inexpensive if you buy in the US. I would rather support local but when the cost is 3 times, even with the shipping and exchange and ordering other supplements at the same time like s-AME - it is still significantly cheaper. NAC is a supplement that seems to have a controversy around kidney protection. There are a lot of studies with dies before a CT or MRI that indicate it helps protect kidney issues and others show no difference. I suspect it provides protection but it depends on what your protecting your kidneys from (the kidney toxic substance). Much like liver supplements - NAC is amazing for Acetaminophen but it won't protect your liver from all toxins but I find it hard to fathom it doesn't help considering it will increase your glutathione.
Let us know how your blood results come out. Hope both help and you are 100% clear.

My protien levels are well below any consern. I guess up to 14 is considered normal, I was a 3 I just want perfect, lol. Its more of an experiment.
Now I am only using strips, but I take pictures of the color to compare and I notice zero difference if I do low protien or don't train (well I did both for about 2 weeks as a test) so its not bodybuilding related.

I could have gotten minor damage from the numerous cat scans I had for my diverticulosis. But as long as it doesn't progress I will not worry. Its my new normal, lol.

I really dug into the studies on NAC and in numerous studies with people with CKD it did lower protien levels a fair bit. That was my reason to try it.