Redacted

Slartibartfast said:
Hey, nice work (again) - you can keep the $ ;)

This was the end result, or one of them, that I was hoping for from the deep dive There is a lot to digest for those of us without biochem backgrounds, so I'm thrilled to see a list of what has been mentioned with some clarification.

Cheers!
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This is the end goal every one will be following when taking AAS at higher mg? Looks that way.


fangedparabolan said:
Thank you for understanding brother this post nails it 100%.

I remember on big pauls live molecular got shit for "not running a realistic dose" and i expected same thing (considering we started it at same time and talked about it lol) but its as youve said.

Im also aware that there are people insane enough to actually use these doses as cycles proper and dont want to leave them out to dry completely either.

I sleep better at night knowing that we have auxiliaries that work at a range of doses.

My only true annoyance with the response is guys claiming im wreckless when they lack the standards of monitoring im under. A world famous sports gp and sports cardio team who hold mds and phds and records in their own sport. Not some half assed tele-test copy and paste "harm reduction pannel" interpreted by md. Mr no name no experience.

The same guys who critique are not running these auxiliaries which they should be as soon as they hit 300mg and are not eating 5g sat fat a day max while doing 1.5 hours liss daily....


These protocols are not JUST to run grams....its for the REC lifter on 300mg upwards...

We have mds in our space saying finerenone is essential once outside of an hrt dose...that empagliflozin is life extending for the hrt population let along the hrt+ and proper cycle population...
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Kinda wrapping my head around it..... it's so crazy it makes sense.
 
My general take from this is do not exceed 300mg. It’s clearly not safe no matter the precautions, if that’s where it starts.
 
fangedparabolan said:
The 300mg is total anabolic load. It does not matter if its test, mast, primo, eq, deca, tren or a blend my brother.

Kurt havens who has access to the negma studies via merk has stated when you take the cumulative tren and test research and contrast them the worse drug is split 50/50 in terms of outcome....

My question becomes who are the people mocking me getting their tren info from? Because im getting mine from those with access to merk data banks, mds who were rxing it, french gov, Smithsonian, ancedotes, animal and mechanistic research. The guys mocking me are guys trying to fix a broken car without any engineering and mechanic education....
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That’s what I meant, total anabolic load. Why? Does that amount seem absurdly low to you?

A lot of us here, stick well within those guidelines and make gains good enough for the average guy.

I’m not questioning your studies, it’s your body, experiment as you wish. I’m questioning the morality of it.
 
fangedparabolan said:
Scouring the medical literature the standard protocol for lvh inhibition and reversal from steeoids is the use of an:

•Arb/ace
• beta blocker
•sglt2 inhibitor
• mra

This is also replicated in the medical literature for heart failure and kidney failure.

The cholesterol meds are taken directly from the medical literature and guidlines

Cardio and diet from most up to date consensus in literature

The speculative part is the supplements

The contentious part is the specific to myself stack of neuro protection but the actual requirements for brain protection are taken from medical literature on steroids + human literature + animal + in vitro/vivo + mechanistic.

So yes it's not as cut and dry as the heart and kidney stack but i was able to attain all heart and kidney meds on rx and with insurance coverage and none were off label. So the medical system at least agrees with me.

I appreciate deeply your as always mature and well thought out and contemplative responses. I wish more engaged like yourself we would be a far better community.

Dr andrew winge and o connor themselves advocate for a telemasartin + nebivaolol + empagliflozin + cialis + fish oil + repatha/ezetimide/statin stack for trt to proper cyclers

I think much of the blowback is a deep fear that people who thought they knew everything or what they were doing are facing their mortality via the realization they under shot the actual risk they took as soon as they took 300mg plus....

300mg of anabolics was a huge number to me when I started and still is now. You wont see me dare use that much without my tele, nebivolol, emp, and Finerenone.

Those who haven't understood that have failed to grasp the true severity and message of this post....
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Is this Dr. Thomas O’Connor’s from The Testosteronology Society
The Definitive Guide To The Testosteronology ABCDS™ Framework?


bc__boy

Post in thread 'Blood work of 54 year old gearless man and his Journey.'

Yeah I watch this guy on YouTube and here is a link to his website.
Dr. Thomas O’Connor’s The Testosteronology Society
The Definitive Guide To The Testosteronology ABCDS™ Framework
testosteronologysociety.com

ABCDS™ Framework Explained Testosteronology Society™

Meet the executive leaders guiding the Testosteronology Society™ and championing innovation, integrity, and growth across the Testosteronology® profession.
testosteronologysociety.com testosteronologysociety.com

  • Like
 
fangedparabolan said:
Minimum effective doses are what we should use and the compounds that we respond to best based on our genetic testing, family history, bloodwork, urinalysis, and scans.

But to generate proper protocols.....as in....the actual medical world....a highest tolerable dose is found and lethal doses. Mast was ran up to 2.8g and primo up to 1.4g in humans....we don't have high dose studies on parabolan...
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Where are the clinical studies showing MTD for these compounds?
 
fangedparabolan said:


^ 24:05 and the exact studies are linked in the comments for you to read yourself because steve...isnt good at reading studies lol.



^ 27:08 and again studies linked in comments for you to read because well same as above
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Ok, I was already aware of the Primo study, but that was done in women with non-operable breast cancer over months.
I wouldn’t put that as MTD based on the fact we’re not women with breast cancer and virtualization is not a concern for men.
I thought there might be other studies showing data for healthy men.
 
fangedparabolan said:
Haha love ya brother but don't think we are gonna get much new in the way of studies on anabolics in ANY population....what we have is likely to be it.... ava (heavy test) will provide us with some new studies soon but outside of that....everything is extraction from populations that dont generally apply and piss poor case studies on self reporting gear users. We basically have to extrapolate and drive via mechanism it sucks but....good luck ever having science proper in our space 😞

I know kurt havens is running a study on cyp vs e in men to demonstrate that ester changes kinetics and pre-research case report demonstrates cyp like hex and npp are not properly metabolized by humans and thus dont build on ladt dose or peak properly or reach full mg efficiency so at least there is that....
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Will your results be published in the medical community?
 
fangedparabolan said:
Id be very careful about making a claim like that around here with unsubstantiated evidence...you may find consequences down the line may occur without ever actually noticing them.

But i can confirm products are legitimate and highly recommend you delete your post for your own benefit
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And this is why I don't use tren anymore!!!!!!
 
Funnyman said:
I think you can take more than that, let's hit 30cc per week.
I personally think this thread, is a told joke with a messed up mind.
I really hope you, don't give cycle advice.
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We used to laugh and joke about shotgun cycles. Load up a syringe with 3 or 4 compounds and let 'er rip!! On the street we call them drug bags.
 
fangedparabolan said:
Hey guys! I posted a while back and my cycle caught many peoples interests especially pertaining to how i was pulling it off and attenuating harm.

I have provided a rough draft below (im in academia) and thus wish to update this with more information and citations to help as many people as possible saftly utalize these substances as possible. I will update this thread as i update the writing and thank you for such a kind welcomeing into the community!

Highly recommend yall check out moleculars deep dive on tren video (100$ to whoever identifies my id in acknowledgements LOL).

During his research experiment he peaked around 2g tren testing his auxiliaries stack

Ive been doing the same and currently am on 1750mg blend of tren no ester, tren ace, tren e, and tren hex. And honestly bloodwork, urinalysis, and blood pressure are all maintaing well. No night sweats no insomnia, calm and want to cuddle with gf all day. Bf has been great at 115/70.

I work with a famous sports med doc, cardio team, and a psych and have testing done as needed on their commands

Here is an essential list for running tren as ive best come to understand the conpound

Id say:

•Telemasartan (arb/ace alts also work)
•Nebivolol
• an sglt2 inhibitor
• mra (specifically finerenone)
• cialis
• Pentoxifylline
• pcsk9 inhibitor
• ezetimide
• statin or bempedoic acid
• vescepa

The combo of an arb/ace + a beta blocker + shlt2 inhibitor, and an mra is the golden standard in both heart and kidney failure along with the research on prevention and treatment of those diagnosed with LVH including those whose is anabolic induced.

Telemasartin alone covers up to 60% of the raas cascade can be attenuated with telemasartan but this 🍃 open and allows anabolics to engage the MR. Krendia (finerenone) inhibits this thus preventing fibrosis from occuring in the kidneys and heart.

Combination of tele + finerenone risks hyperkalima and thus empagliflozin when added helps to drastically reduce this risk while also protecting the kidneys via reduction in occurrences of AKI, slowing or inhibiting ones progress to final stage kidney failure, maintaining a slower egfr decline, improves blood pressure, improves kidney oxygenation. Pentoxifylline further reduces fibrosis + oxidative stress + inflammation in the kidneys and heart! Ontop of that Pentoxifylline has been demonstrated to increase ejection fraction up to 10%. Nebivaolol lowers bp, and increases no production which cialis helps keep around longer.

Pcsk9 inhibitors + ezetimide + a statin or bempedoic acid cover all the available pathways we are aware of for the accumulation of plaque and will be required for most of us to hit a goal abo b of 55 or less to not only inhibit build up but also reverse it.

Supps:

• dual action melatonin
• creatine
• taurine
• glycine
• magnesium biglycinate
• co q 10
• pqq
• ala
• b 50 complex
• vit e (full spectrum)
• vit c
• vit d
• k2
• tmg
• tudca
• nac
• chamomile extract or apigenin (supp or via diet)
• lypocene (but get via food)
• spermadine (get via food)
• Choline (get via food)
• l theanine
• fish oil (eha, dpa, dha) 4g
• flax oil (1.6g ala total)
• liposomal sertia glutathione
• saffron
• PEA

Diet related:

- diet should be high carb, moderate to high protein and low fat with fats coming from essential fatty acid sources. Nuke saturated fat. Whole foods pescatarian based is ideal. If meat consumed the leanest meat possible like bison, elk, chicken breast

• black coffee
• green tea
• wheat germ
• soy flour or milk or protein or tvp
• raw unpasteurized buckwheat honey
• walnuts
• 100% pure dark chocolate
•garlic powder
• curicum powder
• onion powder
• oregano dried
• basically herbs/seasoning spices
• 10-15g fiber for each 1k cals
• a serving or two of berries
• 800g minimum fruits and veg a day
• cacao thats not alk and dutch pressed

^ sounds hippy but you need anti oxidents, polyphennols, phtyosterols etc etc etc

Mitchondria and heart:

• 10k steps a day
• 610 mins liss zone 2 a week
• 1-2 hiit sessions a week
• eat at maitiance or deficit or 100 cal surplus while gaining muscle

Psych:

Much has been written on the neurotoxicity of steroids and none have been memed harder (though in the literature winnie and deca seem to be worse).

Its important to note that the rat data everyone cites for trens neurotoxicity is predicated on the frequency of injections with the more frequency resulting in higher plaque levels and thus accumulation in the brain. Useing esters like hex or enanthate drastically reduces this.

Furthermore humans metabolism of tren is more similar to that of cows then rats. The cow data shows us that testosterone, esteogen and tren injected together largely ameeliorated the plaque response.

Given this tren should be utalized with testosterone + estrogen + hgh as a base regardless of use and estrogen crashing should be avoided.

To maintain proper cognitive health while on anabolics and especially tren one must:

•somethingthing for seratonin tone
• something for neurosteroids
• something for sigma 1 receptor agonism
• something for calcium channels
• something for choline
• something for nmda/glutamate
• something for amloyd and tau clearance
• something to maximize cerebral bloodflow
• something for cell membrane fluidity
• don't dopamine yourself to death
• something for reducing inflammation
• something anxiolytic
• something to regulate dopamine
• something to regulate orexin
• something to ensure sufficent estrogen
• avoid ai/serm as these inhibit endothelial no production
• something for bdnf,vegf/neurogenesis/angiogenesis
• something that replaces melatonin

Personally my base stack for this includes:
• fluovaxamine
• estrogen kept in range
• hgh
• melatonin
• high doses of magnesium, glycine, taurine
• pea
• fish oil
• saffron/apigenin/l theanine
• spermadine
• dietary choline
• Pentoxifylline + cialis

With donepezil and memantine to be added once my order arrives

so far clients have reported donezpil has been working phenomenally along with fluovaxamine at attenuating trens sided. Memantine is also recommended by molecular and has a great track record.

Sleep:

•7-9 hours
• wake up and go to bed at same time
• davigo
• hgh

Electrolytes:

• at minimum 2:1 potassium to salt
• you don't need as much salt as you think
• stop fucking using pink sal
• 1 serving of seaweed a day for iodine

As for tren stack design imo low hrt levels of test are required and with hgh as you need. Preferably a dht based drug is included (dht-e, mdht, mast, proviron to help offset mental sides) . Tren giving its higher binding affinity to ar and longer time docked and thus transcribing should be the lead anabolic in order to avoid off target effects from testosterone the dht and their down stream metabolites. Anadrol given it works off the ar is a great addiction to avoid further side effects.
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Jesus Christ! I'd have to hire a genius midget to manage all that lol!

Glad to hear that at least someone has their shit figured out!

I'm getting older, and the old shit doesn't work as it used to, PLUS I can't find anything to replace it. The labs should all stock an "Older Fucker" blend, so we don't have to spend thousands testing groups long enough to see if they're acceptable and aren't seriously annoying with sides.
 
fangedparabolan said:
This imo and after talking with my merk source is one of the major keys to a large portion of the sides!

Its unfortunately fallen out of favour due to the trend of high test cycles which ignore the kinetics and dynamics of the drugs and result in much of the health issues and premature aging we see.

If you want to run a tren cycle to ruin your brain, kidneys, heart, hairline, skin you'd ideally: run high test, use caber/prami, use stimulants, use a serm/ai, stack other anabolics with the tren and test that waste total mg and compete for receptor sites.
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Sorry I had to edit it. It was supposed to say test, lol. Not more tren, lol.


High test cycles are not fun, too much estrogen conversion. I prefer to run low test and then add on something else that has no estrogen, or low estrogen conversion. Deca is even fine as long as you keep test low, then there is zero need for caber. Lower estrogen, less prolactin in my experience.

As far as running grams of gear. I totally don’t care what others run. I have ran a few high ones in the past, but for myself as I get older and my mortality is stepping in, I have tamed things down. Now if I was running gear in my 20’s I would have went all out to see how far I could go.

I also don’t think someone taking high doses is a junkie. Gear is nothing like meth, crack or any of the typical junkie drugs, I wouldn’t even consider it as addictive as smoking. Maybe around the addiction level of coffee.

DO some have a problem, likely, but is it a junkie issue or more of an experimentation issue. I ran higher doses as an experiment to see what would happen. I don’t jones to runs grams anymore. Honestly I spend more time at 125 mg than anything else.

But as I said, your body, you can do with it what you want as long as it doesn’t affect me. Which it doesn’t. But even though I am not risky enough to take that anymore, I do enjoy reading others logs that do, and seeing the effects they get.
 
fangedparabolan said:
What? Nothing said there was in anger or a threat, its all genuine friendly advice.... there is a reason members here say "stick around and good things will come to you" but those good things won't if you insult them (not talking about myself)....
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fangedparabolan said:
What? Nothing said there was in anger or a threat, its all genuine friendly advice.... there is a reason members here say "stick around and good things will come to you" but those good things won't if you insult them (not talking about myself)....
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All good, sure I think its a crazy amount, but I dont even use it anymore, I probably have no business talking about it. Though I may use a little in the future
 
Sorbate said:
Sorry I had to edit it. It was supposed to say test, lol. Not more tren, lol.


High test cycles are not fun, too much estrogen conversion. I prefer to run low test and then add on something else that has no estrogen, or low estrogen conversion. Deca is even fine as long as you keep test low, then there is zero need for caber. Lower estrogen, less prolactin in my experience.

As far as running grams of gear. I totally don’t care what others run. I have ran a few high ones in the past, but for myself as I get older and my mortality is stepping in, I have tamed things down. Now if I was running gear in my 20’s I would have went all out to see how far I could go.

I also don’t think someone taking high doses is a junkie. Gear is nothing like meth, crack or any of the typical junkie drugs, I wouldn’t even consider it as addictive as smoking. Maybe around the addiction level of coffee.

DO some have a problem, likely, but is it a junkie issue or more of an experimentation issue. I ran higher doses as an experiment to see what would happen. I don’t jones to runs grams anymore. Honestly I spend more time at 125 mg than anything else.

But as I said, your body, you can do with it what you want as long as it doesn’t affect me. Which it doesn’t. But even though I am not risky enough to take that anymore, I do enjoy reading others logs that do, and seeing the effects they get.
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It's not just addiction, it's dependance and it's well documented. We like to think no one is watching, but the medical community has been watching for a long time.



doi.org

Anabolic-androgenic Steroid use and Psychopathology in Athletes. A Systematic Review

The use of anabolic-androgenic steroids (AASs) by professional and recreational athletes is increasing worldwide. The underlying motivations are mainly performance enhancement and body image improvement. AAS abuse and dependence, which are specifically classified and coded by the DSM-5, are not...
doi.org doi.org
 
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