Total vs. free testosterone in the body. What is the difference and what impacts muscle growth/how you feel?

Goldenrod said:
I have been delving into this topic mostly because I like Primo so much and my total test on TRT is in the high end of the norm but even 50-100 mg of Primo a week (over an extended period) will increase my free testosterone 3-4 times the top of the range. Is this good, bad or ugly?
I love Primo, it makes me feel good, small incremental increases in muscle mass/strength you tend to keep, and a boost in libido. All good while only helping my blood markers like lymphocyte count by a small margin while all others are not impacted (minus the hormones).
Total test is the total amount of test available in the blood but often doctors don't look at free test and only look at total test which makes it very easy to get a TRT script. That is how I got my first TRT script - no LH, no SHBG, no estrogen - just total test, tested twice.

What I find interesting and have read a few times is, "The possibility of excessive bondage means that it is possible to have normal levels of total testosterone but still have insufficient free testosterone to perform its essential functions. Too little free testosterone can lead to poor muscle development, irritability, lowered sex drive and a host of other issues that one may not readily associate with too little free testosterone." So how important is free test for sex drive and muscular development?

This post is meant as a discussion. Further, just info I have read and discussed with others.

Bioavailable Testosterone​


Until recently, free testosterone was the only type considered biologically active. It turns out, however, that the portion of the hormone bound to serum albumin tends to become available in the capillary bed. Therefore, non-SHBG-bound testosterone is also deemed as “bioavailable.”


One way of looking at bioavailable testosterone is that it is like a reserve supply, ready for use when the body is low on free testosterone. However, scientists still don’t know how much bioavailable testosterone goes on to be absorbed by cells in these conditions.

Further - copy and paste:

"How Does Free vs Total Testosterone Affect Male Health?​


Total testosterone levels have been the main indicator of a man’s health and fertility for many years.


Now, as doctors are starting to learn more about free testosterone, it is becoming apparent that the true indicators of a man’s strength and virility include both bound and unbound fractions of this hormone.


What does this all mean? Suppose that you feel symptoms of low testosterone levels, such as:
  1. Poor muscle development
  2. Increased irritability
  3. Lowered sex drive

Then, suppose that you took a testosterone test that only accounted for the grand total testosterone levels – and it shows that you have normal total testosterone levels.

Without taking into account your free testosterone levels, your doctor may wrongly attribute these symptoms to another condition and prescribe treatment plans for said condition.

While in fact, the problem may lie in the insufficient amount of free testosterone circulating your body.

Since free testosterone is important since it helps in cell replication and bone and muscle strength, it plays a vital role in a man’s body.

If you worry about worsening sexual health, consulting your doctor to gain normal testosterone levels is recommended."

My GP and Endo who put me on TRT before both tested Total test and nothing else, I also believe most GP's don't know much about hormones but endo's?

Regardless of what I read and delve into the topic further, I will always lower my TRT dosage and add in a little Primo to have a lower total test and a higher free test number for the mental, physical, and sexual impacts. There is a lot of chatter about Primo (DHT compounds) driving down your estrogen but I have never experienced this once. I am sure it happens but not with me. It has zero impact up to 300 mg per week on my estrogen numbers. Luckily, NPP/Deca/or any test ester and DHT drug has zero impact on my estrogen. It is always right in the middle of the range as is my prolactin. Keep in mind a blast is 150 mg of test E, 100-150 mg of Primo or NPP, 2 IU of script HGH and maybe some 1 ML of Iona-Gen per day.

I am very interested in some of the experiences and big brains on this forum. Nothing will change my mind about a high free test number based on how I feel when it is higher but I am curious other's opinion on mood, sex drive, muscle building increases, etc.

thanks,
GR
Click to expand...
Great post
 
Bigbear said:
Yea I've always like trt plus with primo bit it was based around not wanting to use aromatase inhibitors. I know your pretty longevity minded so I wasn't sure. I'm pretty sure maybe other then primo test even at 500mg a week is one of the safer cycles.
Click to expand...
If you do it once or twice a week sure - I don't believe you can cruise or run 500 mg of test year round or even 6 months of the year. Exceptions - you are getting rich of this and are in callendars but even then I would never run that high of a dose for more than a few months and yes I am the conservative staff here and don't care. I watch my health. A very respected person I won't recommend talks about feeling best at cruising at 400 mg a week but he weights 270 but I still wouldn't do it. He is intelligent, educated, and has my respect but it isn't for me. He has since told me he cut it down significantly but still takes more than I do.
I have never ysed an AI even when I used titrated up and down even when I did short 8 week higher doses but even then it would be considered low compared to what people take now. Suspect that is why I react well to low doses. Never needed a SERM or AI - no plans ons it either unless my blood work indicate I need it.
 
Goldenrod said:
I have been delving into this topic mostly because I like Primo so much and my total test on TRT is in the high end of the norm but even 50-100 mg of Primo a week (over an extended period) will increase my free testosterone 3-4 times the top of the range. Is this good, bad or ugly?
I love Primo, it makes me feel good, small incremental increases in muscle mass/strength you tend to keep, and a boost in libido. All good while only helping my blood markers like lymphocyte count by a small margin while all others are not impacted (minus the hormones).
Total test is the total amount of test available in the blood but often doctors don't look at free test and only look at total test which makes it very easy to get a TRT script. That is how I got my first TRT script - no LH, no SHBG, no estrogen - just total test, tested twice.

What I find interesting and have read a few times is, "The possibility of excessive bondage means that it is possible to have normal levels of total testosterone but still have insufficient free testosterone to perform its essential functions. Too little free testosterone can lead to poor muscle development, irritability, lowered sex drive and a host of other issues that one may not readily associate with too little free testosterone." So how important is free test for sex drive and muscular development?

This post is meant as a discussion. Further, just info I have read and discussed with others.

Bioavailable Testosterone​


Until recently, free testosterone was the only type considered biologically active. It turns out, however, that the portion of the hormone bound to serum albumin tends to become available in the capillary bed. Therefore, non-SHBG-bound testosterone is also deemed as “bioavailable.”


One way of looking at bioavailable testosterone is that it is like a reserve supply, ready for use when the body is low on free testosterone. However, scientists still don’t know how much bioavailable testosterone goes on to be absorbed by cells in these conditions.

Further - copy and paste:

"How Does Free vs Total Testosterone Affect Male Health?​


Total testosterone levels have been the main indicator of a man’s health and fertility for many years.


Now, as doctors are starting to learn more about free testosterone, it is becoming apparent that the true indicators of a man’s strength and virility include both bound and unbound fractions of this hormone.


What does this all mean? Suppose that you feel symptoms of low testosterone levels, such as:
  1. Poor muscle development
  2. Increased irritability
  3. Lowered sex drive

Then, suppose that you took a testosterone test that only accounted for the grand total testosterone levels – and it shows that you have normal total testosterone levels.

Without taking into account your free testosterone levels, your doctor may wrongly attribute these symptoms to another condition and prescribe treatment plans for said condition.

While in fact, the problem may lie in the insufficient amount of free testosterone circulating your body.

Since free testosterone is important since it helps in cell replication and bone and muscle strength, it plays a vital role in a man’s body.

If you worry about worsening sexual health, consulting your doctor to gain normal testosterone levels is recommended."

My GP and Endo who put me on TRT before both tested Total test and nothing else, I also believe most GP's don't know much about hormones but endo's?

Regardless of what I read and delve into the topic further, I will always lower my TRT dosage and add in a little Primo to have a lower total test and a higher free test number for the mental, physical, and sexual impacts. There is a lot of chatter about Primo (DHT compounds) driving down your estrogen but I have never experienced this once. I am sure it happens but not with me. It has zero impact up to 300 mg per week on my estrogen numbers. Luckily, NPP/Deca/or any test ester and DHT drug has zero impact on my estrogen. It is always right in the middle of the range as is my prolactin. Keep in mind a blast is 150 mg of test E, 100-150 mg of Primo or NPP, 2 IU of script HGH and maybe some 1 ML of Iona-Gen per day.

I am very interested in some of the experiences and big brains on this forum. Nothing will change my mind about a high free test number based on how I feel when it is higher but I am curious other's opinion on mood, sex drive, muscle building increases, etc.

thanks,
GR
Click to expand...
Medium brain here, not a big brain sorry lol.

I find that certain people benifit largely from adding a drug that helps release more free test. Like myself, i feel amazing when i add in proviron or anavar to a test based cycle. I always wondered why do some benefit so much and others feel nothing. They literally say those drugs are waste of money. Is it due to binding issues, is it because im a high estro converter? Not sure why but i do know damn well that anytime i throw in a small amount of dht product into my cycle i feel twice as good. Everything just runs that much better. If its a toxic dht like winstrol that better feeling is overshadowed by feeling ill and fragile by weeks 4-6. Its to the point that i like to run low dose proviron most of the year with just 3 months of test by itself as a break from everything.

So yes, i agree very much with saying free test is absolutely the most important.
 
Can taking hcg with trt raise free testosterone ? Sounds like there may be a few benifets of running them together if one wanted to
 
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