Testosterone damage

[Sorbate]

Buddy I love seeing that word being used, it's one of the best things I gleaned from my post secondary education. At least I think Family Guy was post secondary, I'm pretty sure I was out of school before it premiered(?)



@Jerbear I will tag onto @ironwill 's post here - I remember when I learned about what ironwill discusses at first I thought this was great news cause hey it'll help my heart get stronger right? Turns out that the problem is that along with that strength comes growth as he mentioned and with that growth comes thickening.
The heart has a rather unique structure compared to most other human muscles in that it is not anchored to bone via tendons. The newfound thickening make it less flexible so that chamber can't expand to it's full capacity. From there on it's a vicious circle, as well as the damage the newfound high BP brings to the kidneys etc that inflexibility itself increases BP and you get stuck in that loop.

Disclaimer: I arent no Dr so this post may be slightly factually fuzzy and possibly just a week arguement that I have used for years to justify my personal lack of cardio exercise in my programming.

I bet some of the thickening comes from our relentless training? That combined with gear useage. I wonder if it increases if you just injected test and didn’t exercise?
Now I also wonder if it didn’t thicken if with the strain we place on the heart lifting heavy poundages mixed with more muscle that if the ventricle would tear? Or strain damage?

 

[Bigbear]

I bet some of the thickening comes from our relentless training? That combined with gear useage. I wonder if it increases if you just injected test and didn’t exercise?
Now I also wonder if it didn’t thicken if with the strain we place on the heart lifting heavy poundages mixed with more muscle that if the ventricle would tear? Or strain damage?

Exactly and I wonder if even just always lifting heavy could cause damage without any test but that's a question I suppose for a different thread. It'd be good to know though and I bet any doctor who doesn't perscribe test would say test causes it and every hormone clinic would say the opposite. Hard to know these days when so many cut backs and corporate sponsored research and yaddy yadda going on. Best guess of mine until a wiser more experienced member corrects me is the long term heart observation of a power lifter verses a man on trt with no exercise. I will take some of the earlier answers into consideration myself though and maybe bank on long term gear use cause some complications unless prevented somehow.

 

[Sorbate]

Exactly and I wonder if even just always lifting heavy could cause damage without any test but that's a question I suppose for a different thread. It'd be good to know though and I bet any doctor who doesn't perscribe test would say test causes it and every hormone clinic would say the opposite. Hard to know these days when so many cut backs and corporate sponsored research and yaddy yadda going on. Best guess of mine until a wiser more experienced member corrects me is the long term heart observation of a power lifter verses a man on trt with no exercise. I will take some of the earlier answers into consideration myself though and maybe bank on long term gear use cause some complications unless prevented somehow.

Everything in moderation.
I would bet trt as we age or if we have low test levels is likely more beneficial than a tiny bit of heart enlargment.

Is dead lifting 300 plus pounds, or other such heavy lifting good for the human body long term, likely not gear or not. Constant strain day in and out cannot be ideal.

But I think the cardio, combined with the better diet, less substance abuse and so one outweighs or makes any other damage we create on equal footings.

Key is to watch you blood pressure and donate to keep your hemocrit down. Dont over donate that can have an opposite effect. Trains your body to increase red blood cells faster IMO. Couple times a year is great.

When I had a doctor, he told me (and he knew I was running gear) the quickest way to damage my body was from high hemocrit and high blood pressure. He said athletes heart is very common, but likely if I didn’t hard abuse gear, I shouldn’t have a problem. So more or less don’t get overly muscular.

 

[Bigbear]

Everything in moderation.
I would bet trt as we age or if we have low test levels is likely more beneficial than a tiny bit of heart enlargment.

Is dead lifting 300 plus pounds, or other such heavy lifting good for the human body long term, likely not gear or not. Constant strain day in and out cannot be ideal.

But I think the cardio, combined with the better diet, less substance abuse and so one outweighs or makes any other damage we create on equal footings.

Key is to watch you blood pressure and donate to keep your hemocrit down. Dont over donate that can have an opposite effect. Trains your body to increase red blood cells faster IMO. Couple times a year is great.

When I had a doctor, he told me (and he knew I was running gear) the quickest way to damage my body was from high hemocrit and high blood pressure. He said athletes heart is very common, but likely if I didn’t hard abuse gear, I shouldn’t have a problem. So more or less don’t get overly muscular.

Thanks sorbate, I always love hearing from you man.

 

[gondar1]

Now I'm thinking and hoping maybe this damage isn't as expected at trt doses? Since it's not super anabolic and not necessarily considered testosterone abuse? But I guess either way when getting into it maybe it's definitely a risk to accept when choosing the testosterone route....

Below is post #6 from this thread. From all I've seen on the subject the consensus in the medical community seems to be that this is very accurate. Your body can't tell the differnce between natural or the commonly used exogenous testosterone. At least not in way that is meaningful to us. IOW it either fits a receptor or not (is test or is not test) and same goes for all the other effects whether positive or negative. Don't get me started on "Bioidentical Testosterone" treatments and the way that term is abused in the industry to try and make it look like that means something special!

My Dr said it’s simple. As long as you find the ideal dosage for you, your body thinks that is normal and is actually very healthy. Until you find your sweet spot the only side effects come from high RBC or estrogen.

And that is my GP not my TRT dr.


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I bet some of the thickening comes from our relentless training? That combined with gear useage. I wonder if it increases if you just injected test and didn’t exercise?
Now I also wonder if it didn’t thicken if with the strain we place on the heart lifting heavy poundages mixed with more muscle that if the ventricle would tear? Or strain damage?

I think what OJJ said applies here too Sorb.

In addition my somewhat educated guess would be that yes when we lift heavy we can tend to create a temporary very high BP situation by holding our breath (the valsalva manuever) which would strain the LV musculature and lead to hypertrophy. Ever seen a powerlifter have a blowout and shoot blood out of their nose? I blew an eyeball once when I was young squatting around 350+, felt/heard a little crunch noise and the white of my eye filled with blood instantly. There is at least one legit study out there from like 30 or 40 years ago that measured PL's skwatting BP at 350 over 250.

The good news in all this is that like we all know if you take away the training stimulus a muscle will shrink. Unfortunately some of the stiffness seems to remain, at least in cardiac tissue.

 

[Sorbate]

Below is post #6 from this thread. From all I've seen on the subject the consensus in the medical community seems to be that this is very accurate. Your body can't tell the differnce between natural or the commonly used exogenous testosterone. At least not in way that is meaningful to us. IOW it either fits a receptor or not (is test or is not test) and same goes for all the other effects whether positive or negative. Don't get me started on "Bioidentical Testosterone" treatments and the way that term is abused in the industry to try and make it look like that means something special!



I think what OJJ said applies here too Sorb.

In addition my somewhat educated guess would be that yes when we lift heavy we can tend to create a temporary very high BP situation by holding our breath (the valsalva manuever) which would strain the LV musculature and lead to hypertrophy. Ever seen a powerlifter have a blowout and shoot blood out of their nose? I blew an eyeball once when I was young squatting around 350+, felt/heard a little crunch noise and the white of my eye filled with blood instantly. There is at least one legit study out there from like 30 or 40 years ago that measured PL's skwatting BP at 350 over 250.

The good news in all this is that like we all know if you take away the training stimulus a muscle will shrink. Unfortunately some of the stiffness seems to remain, at least in cardiac tissue.

Biggest thing I wonder is if the bit of stiffening will actually impede anything in the future. You would think if it was a very dangerous thing them most athletes would die young.

 

[entropy]

The human body is a biochemical machinery. It is engineering at its best. The heart functions as a pump. Pumps are rated based on maximal pressure and flow output. Everyone’s heart is rated for their genetics. This includes exercise habits and the maximum potential your body has in terms of growth.

When you use hormones and surpass your genetic limits, then your heart starts to overwork. The human body will try to adapt and evolve so it can carry out its functions under whatever internal or environmental conditions is presented.

It has to be hormones plus physical demand. Just TRT will not cause it. If that were the case, we’d have people with naturally high test levels having this issue.

Of course, research that is not bias is needed but who is going to fund it? We do know for sure though that bodybuilders have this enlargement and thickening.