Where did you get your machine and which model?
Self Medicating TRT
- Thread starter Tom Simons
- Start date
I think its really better to do everyday IM injections to really know what your true testosterone total level is from day to day
. In your case, that would mean injecting 20mg a day. And ideally, you would do your blood test about 30 minutes before next injection, so that way you do your blood testosterone total at a true trough level. For me, it just doesn't make any sense to inject twice a week because you have that instant spike and then the drop in the course of 3.5 days. The body diurnal circadian starts off with high test levels in the morning and drops down in the evening and then it starts increasing again late in the night. This happens in the course of one day, not 3.5 days. As well, its known that when you inject everyday, then your testosterone total level will be approx 20 percent (or more) higher on that same dose per week, and injecting everyday supposedly increases free test more then biweekly injections.
Amazon, when I’m back home in 10 days I’ll take a pic.
I'm assuming you didn't read the whole thread because I'd have thought you would have presented an arguement to what I said in post #73. Just guessing though, I'm all up for polite discussion. It's not true if using exogenous Test at supra physiological levels which is about the only reason you would be using it that I can think of off hand. There is no call to produce more test once the feedback loop has been satisfied, therefore no "natural" peaks.
TT higher by what metric?... As well, its known that when you inject everyday, then your testosterone total level will be approx 20 percent (or more) higher on that same dose per week, and injecting everyday supposedly increases free test more then biweekly injections
Could you cite a source for both these comments please?
When you say supra physiological levels, do you mean taking test at 150mg a week or more
? I definitely don't take it at that much. I take 70mg a week (10mg a day). And if I subtract the ester weight, then that leaves me with 49mg of test per week, which my body would naturally make. For total testosterone, I use ng/dL metric system. This is the american metric system used on various TRT web sites.I don't have a source for those comments
. Its just that when I read the threads on these other TRT forums, a lot of guys claim that their total and free test is higher when injecting every day and that they can use a lot more less test per week and get lesser estro sides.
1 - hard to keep this short...1When you say supra physiological levels, do you mean taking test at 150mg a week or more
I don't have a source for those comments
The dose doesn't matter, what matters is if your feedback system does or does not call for more production or not and if your testes can produce to meet demand. That can depend on which kind of hypogonadism you have assuming you do. Even if you are not hypo the same rules apply. If the feedback loop see's "enough" Test in the system there is no demand for more, IOW no pulse.
That's what "shutdown" means and there is also always potentially a delay in production while the system recovers even if the level drops below the trigger point.
Everyone is different but I'll assume you are hypo because otherwise I can't see why you would take a legit replacement dose.
2 I meant metric as in the method/system of measuring. Peaks? Area Under the Curve? Conversion rate?
3 I'm an advocate of more frequent injects for various reasons and do it myself however I'd have to hear a solid explanation of what total test being higher means , again- by what metric/standard, before i could agree with that point.
Thanks for the reply
You got me stomped on points 2 and 3
because I don't know those about myself. But I do aim for being "in the range" for my numbers, meaning I would like to keep my free test below 35 ng/dL and my estrodiol below 45 pg/mL. I feel these are decent numbers for me. I do use TRT as a means for secondary hypogonadism due to the numerous cycles I've done in my life, and not for bodybuilding purposes. For bodybuilding, I will use NPP, anadrol, Superdrol and so forth because I don't like using test that much for bodybuilding. For all I am concerned, I currently training naturally with my measly 10mg a day of just test
.How much test do you take a week for just TRT purposes? Injection frequency twice a week or less, every day
?
I'm pretty direct but no intention of "stomping" anyone. Most of the time anyways lol. I just enjoy getting to the source so I can judge the merits of what's been said for myself. No issues as far as yourself or anyone who is simply offering an opinion politely, some of us here will ask for it to be backed up though.You got me stomped on points 2 and 3
How much test do you take a week for just TRT purposes? Injection frequency twice a week or less, every day
120 a week TE most of the time @ every 3.5 days, blood drawn at trough puts me at 700 ng/dl. Higher than that I need something to prevent a gyno flare up.
I do play with the frequency sometimes, never more than E4D, EOD lots of times. Have done ED a bunch of times too but I think you can have too steady of a level at some point. The biggest benefit I see with higher frequency is that you avoid those spikes you mention.
Super-physiological is any amount that would exceed your natural production. 120mg/wk for me puts my tt and ft at super-physiological levels.When you say supra physiological levels, do you mean taking test at 150mg a week or more
I don't have a source for those comments
"I think its really better to do everyday IM injections to really know what your true testosterone total level is from day to day"
Are you taking propionate? B/c you need to take into consideration half lives. But, regardless I disagree. Taking a longer ester test ED or EOD will produce compounding half lives, and as @gondar1 mentioned sometimes having a too steady level of test does not mean better. Your natural production is not precision consistent. It relies on an entire cascading chain of reactions, and your body's natural.pulse is adjusted accordingly.
I've tried EOD a couple times, and it did not produce the great results I had read about. My cognition was great, but I didn't feel good, and libido was shit. Fwiw, I'm a high responder w an shbg in the 40s, and I've made the decision to try a frequency that will avoid overlapping half lives.
On 50e3 I felt good, libido was decent, but after a while I had what felt like persistent low level anxiety/edginess. E2 was in check, but I just felt flat. Then I went back to e3.5, and then e4. The further I pushed out my shot the better I felt, but e2 was still an issue. Right now I feel pretty good at 90e5, but I'm going to go w 100e5 so I can dose asin without the risk of crashing my e2.
The point is that there are many more factors to consider.
Man injecting 0.5ml broken down into 7 days, 365 days a year 
Im taking test cyp
. As you might of guessed, my injections constitutes a very small amount of oil. I inject 0.04ml (by the way, my test cyp is 200mg/ml) which constitutes 8mg. I was taking 10mg a day, but when I saw my last labs at something like 750ng/dl, I decided to drop it to 8mg a day. There is some theory that smaller injections break down faster in the body, causing a higher peak and a lower trough all in one day, especially if its in MCT oil. My SHBG is 30, so this supposedly allows me to utilize less test. Also, estrogen is better managed on daily injections. Acne is drastically decreased. Sleep is great, permitting I inject before bedtime. I have never needed an AI on injecting everyday, except when I injected 14mg a day. So on my part, I strongly sense that my levels arn't level throughout the day. But the only real way to find out would be if I test my total test 3 times in one day, and god forbid any doctor to give me 3 blood requisitions in one day for my total test
. My main purpose for TRT is to replicate my own test levels to what they should be for my age, and not for bodybuilding purposes. My focus is now on natural bodybuilding until I can get myself down to the right test levels
It sounds like you’ve got things relatively dialed in, or as best as they can be on the TRT front….Im taking test cyp
I’ve got a few questions for you….
1) how did you determine at 14mg/day, or 98/week that you needed an AI? Presumably, it was through your bloodwork, which you seem to have pretty good insight into.
2) how long have you been running these low dosages and are you running RX or UGL test-cyp? Because of your low volumes and dosages, how have you been able to establish a measure of consistency from one batch to the next? Another way to frame this question is that a variance in concentration would have more impact the lower the dosage, from a percentage basis.
It seems as though you have found what works well for you. But, I need to note some things, test cyp has a defined halflife, and whether you inject 8mg or 150mg that ester is cleaved at a relatively set rate. That's the chemistry of that compound, and you then metabolize it accordingly. It does not peak intra-day. The reason you have a test level of 750 is because of the compounding halflives. There would be very little variability in your bloods regardless when they were taken. That's the nature of the compound. I did EOD injections at 30mg, and my 'trough' was over 1000 for that the same reason. As for your other statements, 'your' estrogen is better managed on daily injections. There is no universal x works best so do that. The reality is that daily injections don't work well for many, if not most, or we'd all be doing daily shots. I know far more guys who have tried ed or EOD and ditched than those who swear by it.Im taking test cyp
I'd like to add that I view TRT a bit differently. I view TRT as the opportunity to maximize my biological potential for my age. I'm not a bodybuilder, but I want to remain as strong and physically capable as possible for my age. Right now I'm shooting 100e5, which may not be sustainable, but I don't have acne, I'm lean as fuck, no e2 issues to speak of, and I feel pretty good. Although I do feel a bit of a rise a day post shot it's minimal. I particularly enjoy the edge I have on a higher dose. Imo e2 is much more easily managed when shooting less frequently when ai is being used. At your dose your body is able to manage e2 on its own, which is essentially natty, which is great if that's your aim. I've been there, and I found it lacking, but we'll see how this goes. I do think it's great that you are in a place that you feel good and your protocol works for you.Im taking test cyp
You don't lift weights at all? Not saying that's a bad thing just very interesting if true.
Guys is there anything objective and ‘black and white’ when it comes to TRT vs ‘cruising’ at whatever you’d call dosages ABOVE TRT?
I know there’s a general consensus of around 100-150 mg per week as being the upper threshold for TRT, there isn’t a hormone clinic website that I’ve seen which states finitely and conclusively that there is a specific number and what the justification is for that.
I have read several guys on several forums state that if you’re not doing what would be considered as a cycle level dosage and NOT doing a TRT level dosage then you are fooling around, wasting your time, etc., etc….
I have played with my dosages enough to know that I feel great and have zero negative sides whatsoever at around 200-250mg/week, and have been BLASTED by guys saying that because this is t low enough to be considered TRT, I’m a complete idiot for not pushing it to at least 500 and cycling properly….
The final question to all those who would want to weigh in, is this:
If I feel great on 250 a week and plan on being on TRT for life, what would be the more appropriate thing to do? Go on a 12 week cycle of 250 a week every now and then but then drop it back down to 100 for my cruising dosage? I have a hard time making sense that considering how good and stable I feel on 200-250.
I know there’s a general consensus of around 100-150 mg per week as being the upper threshold for TRT, there isn’t a hormone clinic website that I’ve seen which states finitely and conclusively that there is a specific number and what the justification is for that.
I have read several guys on several forums state that if you’re not doing what would be considered as a cycle level dosage and NOT doing a TRT level dosage then you are fooling around, wasting your time, etc., etc….
I have played with my dosages enough to know that I feel great and have zero negative sides whatsoever at around 200-250mg/week, and have been BLASTED by guys saying that because this is t low enough to be considered TRT, I’m a complete idiot for not pushing it to at least 500 and cycling properly….
The final question to all those who would want to weigh in, is this:
If I feel great on 250 a week and plan on being on TRT for life, what would be the more appropriate thing to do? Go on a 12 week cycle of 250 a week every now and then but then drop it back down to 100 for my cruising dosage? I have a hard time making sense that considering how good and stable I feel on 200-250.
My doc goes by how good you feel but he's 100% against any a.i usage. He also doesn't want my free testosterone levels over I think 770ng/dl. My script is 180mg a week and I don't even need it I usually stick with 140ish or the apnea and other sides start kicking in. Don't forget it Cann also be a case of less is more where as too high of levels can be dangerous, make you feel like crap etc..
Lol, I'm not a bodybuilder, more of a powerlifter. Don't lift weights?, lol, that's hilarious. The gym, specifically weightlifting, is my cornerstone of sanity and structure. I thrive on that release.
My bad brother I don't know you well and was only going off the not a bodybuilder comment.