Redacted

[T77]

As I said in previous posts from this fella. Sounded interesting, but highly complicated. But first time I read his protocol my question was about taking that many ancillaries to manage sides. Seemed like that would just cause different sides. But as I said than, was simply too far beyond my understanding to even be able to research to fact check.

 

[CoolRick]

As I said in previous posts from this fella. Sounded interesting, but highly complicated. But first time I read his protocol my question was about taking that many ancillaries to manage sides. Seemed like that would just cause different sides. But as I said than, was simply too far beyond my understanding to even be able to research to fact check.

A few of you guys on here get the jist of it and have pointed out the flaws without going down a systems theory rabbit hole which I'm pleased to see.

A critical flaw in his philosophy is that all of the things he's doing or taking are positive with no down sides, when in fact the entire experiment has more asymetrical downside than it does upside even in it's findings. It's beyond absurd to anyone who studies and works with complex systems.

He's attempting to regulate a system that's self regulating with medications and supplements that interfere with each other in ways we don't even understand. The result is the literal disintegration of an otherwise coherent system that on balance of probabilities will result in it's eventual dysfunction.

 

[T77]

A few of you guys on here get the jist of it and have pointed out the flaws without going down a systems theory rabbit hole which I'm pleased to see.

A critical flaw in his philosophy is that all of the things he's doing or taking are positive with no down sides, when in fact the entire experiment has more asymetrical downside than it does upside even in it's findings. It's beyond absurd to anyone who studies and works with complex systems.

He's attempting to regulate a system that's self regulating with medications and supplements that interfere with each other in ways we don't even understand. The result is the literal disintegration of an otherwise coherent system that on balance of probabilities will result in it's eventual dysfunction.

The last paragraph of your response is were my mind went. There are very if any medications that have no side effects. Once you start running that many I feel like you would end up constantly grabbing more meds to treat the sides of the meds your using to treat the side effect of the meds you added abd on and on🫪

 

[gondar1]

The last paragraph of your response is were my mind went. There are very if any medications that have no side effects. Once you start running that many I feel like you would end up constantly grabbing more meds to treat the sides of the meds your using to treat the side effect of the meds you added abd on and on🫪

Yeah for script drugs that's called a prescribing cascade. I've heard some pretty high numbers of the percentages of this in NA. No matter how big the expert was there is no point in mentioning the numbers people have said because there is no realistic way to know but it's certainly fair to say it's a real problem.
My exposure to this stuff is outdate but I'd bet that what is documented fairly well is that certain types of cases experience it heavily, Psych drugs, CV drugs, older patients etc.
I mentioned earlier that it's tricky to back out of, I've worked through this with two family members and one of them took years. It's an ever ongoing experience for myself, fairly ramped up currently. A lot of the fight is to overcome anxiety about giving up the positives the drugs and supps were/are supposed to provide and "arguing" with Dr's. A solid relationship with a competent pharmacist is very helpful especially for saving time.

 

[Sorbate]

The last paragraph of your response is were my mind went. There are very if any medications that have no side effects. Once you start running that many I feel like you would end up constantly grabbing more meds to treat the sides of the meds your using to treat the side effect of the meds you added abd on and on🫪

If you think about it, even growth from taking testostrone is a side effect. If you consider the first effect to be mood enhancement.

 

[Heraclitus]

Almost exactly how I've looked at it. Viewed from an engineering and/ or technical / diagnostic view it makes zero sense. Especially the fact it hinges on shotgunning a laundry list of compounds and supplements on one person for a one time experiment. Many of these variables are unproven or lack enough data themselves.

I made a whole thread on my stance which critiques this side of it amongst other things so I won't go over it all again.

This level of complexity might bamboozle others into thinking this guy knows his stuff, but it won't do it for me, sorry. How anyone could take this experiment seriously is beyond me and quite easily more disturbing than the experiment itself now that I've had time to let it sink in.

I don't believe he's trying to bamboozle anyone.
Maybe himself.
My read is he's 26 or 27, clearly intelligent, intensely curious, and caught up in the enthusiasm of believing that if you understand enough of the mechanisms, you can predict and manage the system.
But that's my own bias. I was that kid at 27.
I wouldn't want to dissuade him from investigating. He's clearly got a lot of intellectual horsepower and potential. I just dont think he has yet encountered the point where mechanistic understanding runs headlong into system-level complexity.
Newton couldn't solve the three-body problem. He's essentially trying to solve a 27-body problem.
It's precisely why I find it fascinating, encouraging, and have faith in the next generation. The invincibility of youth, pointed in a direction that could generate real gains. He understands the trees exceptionally well,
And the resiliency of youth will survive a lot of punishment.
That combination is how leaps in progress are made. Despite the asymmetry involved, we write history books about the pioneers who survived.

 

[Bigbear]

Yeah for script drugs that's called a prescribing cascade. I've heard some pretty high numbers of the percentages of this in NA. No matter how big the expert was there is no point in mentioning the numbers people have said because there is no realistic way to know but it's certainly fair to say it's a real problem.
My exposure to this stuff is outdate but I'd bet that what is documented fairly well is that certain types of cases experience it heavily, Psych drugs, CV drugs, older patients etc.
I mentioned earlier that it's tricky to back out of, I've worked through this with two family members and one of them took years. It's an ever ongoing experience for myself, fairly ramped up currently. A lot of the fight is to overcome anxiety about giving up the positives the drugs and supps were/are supposed to provide and "arguing" with Dr's. A solid relationship with a competent pharmacist is very helpful especially for saving time.

Im not against medications at all. My theory is medication is just glorified supplements (except free if you have benefits) and are proven to work. I tried multiple things for blood pressure and cholesterol and half of them didnt work the other half was always a wild goose chase or way too expensive. If a person has an actual medical issue like high blood pressure or high cholesterol thats what doctors and meds are for. Supplememts I think are great for prevention as long as they work for the person. But like anything medications shouldnt be abused either. My blood pressure and cholesterol has never been this good for as long as I can remember

 

[CoolRick]

I don't believe he's trying to bamboozle anyone.
Maybe himself.
My read is he's 26 or 27, clearly intelligent, intensely curious, and caught up in the enthusiasm of believing that if you understand enough of the mechanisms, you can predict and manage the system.
But that's my oen bias. I was that kid at 27.
I wouldn't want to dissuade him from investigating. He's clearly got a lot of intellectual horsepower and potential. I just dont think he has yet encountered the point where mechanistic understanding runs headlong into system-level complexity.
Newton couldn't solve the three-body problem. He's essentially trying to solve a 27-body problem.
It's precisely why I find it fascinating, encouraging, and have faith in the next generation. The invincibility of youth, pointed in a direction that could generate real gaines. He understands the trees exceptionally well,
And the resiliency of youth will survive a lot of punishment.
That combination is how leaps in progress are made. Despite the asymmetry involved, we write history books about the pioneers who survived.

That doesn't sound like intelligence, it sounds like ignorance. There's nothing intelligent about being overzealous IMO.

I'm all for experimentation, but this is not the way in my view. I'm no academic, hell I don't have much more than a high school diploma. But if I can poke holes in this experiment with my eyes closed it remains in the class of YouTube talking head/ shill in my books. In otherwords it's superficial at best with no basis in reality.

He's welcome to prove me wrong, but I've seen this movie before. They all end up dead.

 

[T77]

Im not against medications at all. My theory is medication is just glorified supplements (except free if you have benefits) and are proven to work. I tried multiple things for blood pressure and cholesterol and half of them didnt work the other half was always a wild goose chase or way too expensive. If a person has an actual medical issue like high blood pressure or high cholesterol thats what doctors and meds are for. Supplememts I think are great for prevention as long as they work for the person. But like anything medications shouldnt be abused either. My blood pressure and cholesterol has never been this good for as long as I can remember

Definitely not against needed meds for legitimate concerns. If possible to manage with lifestyle and supplements thats the way to go. Although more expensive. But all research points to high correlation of high bp and bad cholesterol levels with multiple life altering or life ending health risks. So in my mind when needed, I would definitely use meds for that. My point was more about the multiple medications this poster had for managing sides from peds which would likely cause more other symptoms. When talking about bp and cholesterol evidence is clear that keeping in healthy parameters significantly improves longevity and health. So worth the risk of possible sides when needed. But thats just me

 

[Bigbear]

Definitely not against needed meds for legitimate concerns. If possible to manage with lifestyle and supplements thats the way to go. Although more expensive. But all research points to high correlation of high bp and bad cholesterol levels with multiple life altering or life ending health risks. So in my mind when needed, I would definitely use meds for that. My point was more about the multiple medications this poster had for managing sides from peds which would likely cause more other symptoms. When talking about bp and cholesterol evidence is clear that keeping in healthy parameters significantly improves longevity and health. So worth the risk of possible sides when needed. But thats just me

Well said man I agree

 

[gondar1]

@Bigbear @T77
One could probably pick up on it from my posts but FWIW in my mind the distinction between a drug and supplement of the kind were talking about here as a simple term isn't anything. My definition of a drug is something like 'any chemical that alters how the mind or body functions'

 

[CoolRick]

@Bigbear @T77
One could probably pick up on it from my posts but FWIW in my mind the distinction between a drug and supplement of the kind were talking about here as a simple term isn't anything. My definition of a drug is something like 'any chemical that alters how the mind or body functions'

Here's food for thought Gondar. Even foods can alter the mind or bodily functions. Aurveydic medicine is pretty hip to this I might add.

Another thing I find interesting is that the FDA covers both food and drugs. Strange combination, but is it?

Side note, is dbol just food that makes my muscles grow? Lol jk

 

[gondar1]

Here's food for thought Gondar. Even foods can alter the mind or bodily functions. Aurveydic medicine is pretty hip to this I might add.

Another thing I find interesting is that the FDA covers both food and drugs. Strange combination, but is it?

Side note, is dbol just food that makes my muscles grow? Lol jk

Yessir, agree to the first point, have given it thought. I tried to keep that lil definition as short as I could. Though unspoken my definition still applies because more specifically the chemicals in the food alter the functions.

How about - My definition of a drug is something like 'any chemical that alters how the mind or body functions no matter it's source or legal status' ?

I don't think that covering both is strange but I do think the FDA is a pretty fucked up shitshow. Our Health Canada and it's associated agencies might be slightly better. That's all I'll say about that though, not looking to get into a politics discussion.

 

[CoolRick]

Yessir, agree to the first point, have given it thought. I tried to keep that lil definition as short as I could. Though unspoken my definition still applies because more specifically the chemicals in the food alter the functions.

How about - My definition of a drug is something like 'any chemical that alters how the mind or body functions no matter it's source or legal status' ?

I don't think that covering both is strange but I do think the FDA is a pretty fucked up shitshow. Our Health Canada and it's associated agencies might be slightly better. That's all I'll say about that though, not looking to get into a politics discussion.

Yea I like that definition. Things like ashwaganda are considered medicine in different cultures yet are viewed as supplements here which I think is wrong considering it can have some pretty nasty side effects.

Reading food and drugs (FDA) together got me viewing everything I ingest almost like a drug whether it is or not. A little off topic but i tend to view music, movies etc. the same way too.