Protein and training

[Goldenrod]

Protein for muscle mass: What is the optimal intake?

In this Honest Nutrition feature, we look at how much protein a person needs to build muscle mass, what the best protein sources are, and what risks to be aware of.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

Notice the per kg and not lb. Not saying I agree with this, but I do believe the incredible amount of protein some people eat, contribute to some of the health issues people have, and not just from PED. Just an opinion but a quick search will explain why I suspect this. Again, don't agree with everything noted in this article, and intense bodybuilding may require more, but this concept of 400-600 grams of protein per day for an average 200 lbs man makes no sense to me unless you are a giant.
I am mostly thinking urea when I refer to health - kidney and heart health, and the kinds of protein you are eating and neglect micronutrients.

 

[T77]

Protein for muscle mass: What is the optimal intake?

In this Honest Nutrition feature, we look at how much protein a person needs to build muscle mass, what the best protein sources are, and what risks to be aware of.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

Notice the per kg and not lb. Not saying I agree with this, but I do believe the incredible amount of protein some people eat, contribute to some of the health issues people have, and not just from PED. Just an opinion but a quick search will explain why I suspect this. Again, don't agree with everything noted in this article, and intense bodybuilding may require more, but this concept of 400-600 grams of protein per day for an average 200 lbs man makes no sense to me unless you are a giant.
I am mostly thinking urea when I refer to health - kidney and heart health, and the kinds of protein you are eating and neglect micronutrients.

I just read another meta analysis the other day with similar outcomes. Cant find it again or id post. End message was that even in bodybuilders diminishing gains above 1.2g/pd protein intake mean in general any intake above that will have negligible effect. If your a pro bodybuilder than even that negligible gain may be worth it to you. For many of us its likely a waste of money and just more calories.

 

[mcwilliams]

600g of protein a day? At that point you're bulking the poultry industry more than yourself.

 

[Vitko]

Protein for muscle mass: What is the optimal intake?

In this Honest Nutrition feature, we look at how much protein a person needs to build muscle mass, what the best protein sources are, and what risks to be aware of.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

Notice the per kg and not lb. Not saying I agree with this, but I do believe the incredible amount of protein some people eat, contribute to some of the health issues people have, and not just from PED. Just an opinion but a quick search will explain why I suspect this. Again, don't agree with everything noted in this article, and intense bodybuilding may require more, but this concept of 400-600 grams of protein per day for an average 200 lbs man makes no sense to me unless you are a giant.
I am mostly thinking urea when I refer to health - kidney and heart health, and the kinds of protein you are eating and neglect micronutrients.

I can’t imagine eating 400g + of protein, I’m 200 lb fairly lean and I aim for 225-250 a day and sometimes have trouble eating that amount of CLEAN food a day.

 

[Sorbate]

I ate 500-600 g of protein a day at one timefor a few years when younger, but I drank a lot of powder and milk. Easy to get the numbers up that way.

I only eat about 1-1.5 g/lb now and really notice no difference.

 

[CanadianEh]

Protein for muscle mass: What is the optimal intake?

In this Honest Nutrition feature, we look at how much protein a person needs to build muscle mass, what the best protein sources are, and what risks to be aware of.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

Notice the per kg and not lb. Not saying I agree with this, but I do believe the incredible amount of protein some people eat, contribute to some of the health issues people have, and not just from PED. Just an opinion but a quick search will explain why I suspect this. Again, don't agree with everything noted in this article, and intense bodybuilding may require more, but this concept of 400-600 grams of protein per day for an average 200 lbs man makes no sense to me unless you are a giant.
I am mostly thinking urea when I refer to health - kidney and heart health, and the kinds of protein you are eating and neglect micronutrients.

Jesus, I've pushed up to 325g before at my heaviest and that was a burden to eat each day, I can't even imagine trying to scarf down 600g of protein per day.

I find I get the exact same results eating 250 ish and when I push above that all it does is make me feel slughish.

 

[gondar1]

I just read another meta analysis the other day with similar outcomes. Cant find it again or id post. End message was that even in bodybuilders diminishing gains above 1.2g/pd protein intake mean in general any intake above that will have negligible effect. If your a pro bodybuilder than even that negligible gain may be worth it to you. For many of us its likely a waste of money and just more calories.

Perhaps I missed something cause I read the article yesterday? Similar outcome? Or am i just fucking up the math? That's about a 40% difference 145g/240g (95g diff) for a 200lb guy. (high in that article 1.6/kg vs 1.2/pd.
I'm too lazy to check my math rn (please do I'm tired ) but I have 1.76/kg or 0.8/lb in my head as BARE minimum and more realistic numbers of of 2.2 and 1.0 as a minimum for anyone seriously trying to gain muscle. Overkill? Not as crazy as the numbers Goldy mentions in the OP but the some insurance with the extra bonus of taking advantage of the thermic effect, the extra energy needed to process protein vs carbs or fat.
Frankly I hate these articles when they don't list their sources. And some of these meta analysis' are horrible you really need to vet them for yourself although their are a few names I do trust to run proper studies

 

[T77]

Perhaps I missed something cause I read the article yesterday? Similar outcome? Or am i just fucking up the math? That's about a 40% difference 145g/240g (95g diff) for a 200lb guy. (high in that article 1.6/kg vs 1.2/pd.
I'm too lazy to check my math rn (please do I'm tired ) but I have 1.76/kg or 0.8/lb in my head as BARE minimum and more realistic numbers of of 2.2 and 1.0 as a minimum for anyone seriously trying to gain muscle. Overkill? Not as crazy as the numbers Goldy mentions in the OP but the some insurance with the extra bonus of taking advantage of the thermic effect, the extra energy needed to process protein vs carbs or fat.
Frankly I hate these articles when they don't list their sources. And some of these meta analysis' are horrible you really need to vet them for yourself although their are a few names I do trust to run proper studies

More likely me fucking up the math. From what I remember it talked about 0.8g/lb as maintenance level for average folk and 1-1.4/pd for those trying to achieve hypertrophy. But what peaked my interest was the mention of the diminishing gains above 1.2.

 

[Goldenrod]

I can’t imagine eating 400g + of protein, I’m 200 lb fairly lean and I aim for 225-250 a day and sometimes have trouble eating that amount of CLEAN food a day.

Do you use whey protein powder? I am on a strict steak, chicken, fish - salmon, haddock, etc. and plant protein with the exception of my morning smoothy and feel better and my digestion is better.
Suspect it is due to allergies, I can't take any protein powder unless it is sweetened by stevia which limits my protein powder options. I don't buy into the concept you need to have protein immediately after a workout in a liquid form to make the most out of it. If you eat a steak 4 hours before your workout, chances are unless you have a very fast metabolism, you are still absorbing protein in your small intestine, took 2 hours or longer to break down in your stomach. The benefits from real food/protein from a muscle building perspective can last 24 hours or longer. Hence eating regular meals with quality food sources of protein remain active in your body for 24 hours.
Protein powder from everything I have read is fully utilized within 3 or 4 hours.

Not against whey protein in the least, but I do not believe it is as good as a free range chicken breast, cut of beef from a local butcher shop, or salmon from a local / fresh seafood shop.

You look considerably larger than 200 lbs so either everything in the picture is smaller or it is an optical illusion lol.

 

[Vitko]

Do you use whey protein powder? I am on a strict steak, chicken, fish - salmon, haddock, etc. and plant protein with the exception of my morning smoothy and feel better and my digestion is better.
Suspect it is due to allergies, I can't take any protein powder unless it is sweetened by stevia which limits my protein powder options. I don't buy into the concept you need to have protein immediately after a workout in a liquid form to make the most out of it. If you eat a steak 4 hours before your workout, chances are unless you have a very fast metabolism, you are still absorbing protein in your small intestine, took 2 hours or longer to break down in your stomach. The benefits from real food/protein from a muscle building perspective can last 24 hours or longer. Hence eating regular meals with quality food sources of protein remain active in your body for 24 hours.
Protein powder from everything I have read is fully utilized within 3 or 4 hours.

Not against whey protein in the least, but I do not believe it is as good as a free range chicken breast, cut of beef from a local butcher shop, or salmon from a local / fresh seafood shop.

You look considerably larger than 200 lbs so either everything in the picture is smaller or it is an optical illusion lol.

I’m only 5’9 so maybe it gives an illusion of me being bigger, also pump and lighting haha. I have 1 shake a day but I don’t use whey I use beef protein because whey bloats me. I try and get most of my protein and calories from whole foods as well. Chicken eggs beef cheese Greek yogurt etc.

 

[Rhyno]

I've seen plenty of these studies and the ranges are typically fairly broad.
The typical recommendation of 1 g per lb has been lowered to . 8 g and now we are up to 2+ g as a ceiling.
I didn't compare the studies or how they were constructed, how they were measuring the growth and the rest of their diet but I don't really care to. These specifics are things most of us naturally determine on our own as we progress. Carbohydrates are muscle sparing as well.
Sad thing is that there are some people that will see that and take it as law and blindly follow because " science " .

 

[CoolRick]

The problem I see with what they're recommending is if you're not eating protein on the higher end (1g/lb of LBM) what else are you eating to get your daily calories? It doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand that eating a bunch of fat and carbs is a good way to get fat and unhealthy.