Lifting Form (Stretching Rep Focus)

[klhsx]

Basically I think the biggest values from slightly slower eccentrics (with a measurable dead stop) come from two things.

First, they help to standardize what a rep looks like in a particular set. This is important when trying to measure progressive resistance. Call bullshit reps what they are, cheat, partial etc.

Second is all the things that we mostly look at as physiotherapy but improve hypertrophy outcomes by many means which add up-

If you think about it, pausing at the bottom is tipping the ratio of chest/tricep more to the chest because you are holding the time longer on the chest.

Im taking that same idea more extreme, just cut the triceps out, I have 4-5 moves for the tricep alone each week. repeated at least two days.....

I don't think there is a bullshit rep based on ROM or speed if you have a goal, and you achieve the goal.

If you are total newb, and your literally just trying to ego lift, break records, convince yourself your strong thats a very different situation for a shallow rep.

Like you said you seen pros do only the top part of the rep, and avoid the stretch.
Dips are perfect example of this.

I can do dips on chest day and make it a chest move, by staying low enough I dont feel tricep.

I can also do a super shallow top half, and dont go any lower when I feel my chest start to take the load.

You are basically taking a compound lift, and emphasizing a target muscle, kind of making it more isolated.


This leads you down a road of doing twice as many moves, or more to get your full body. But it also allows you to custom tailor the stimulus, and ends up maximizing your overall gains. And this is how you get the point where you can start to target weak spots, and actually sculpt your body. In my case it allowed me to unlock chest growth which I just never figured out before this.

 

[Rhyno]

Only training in the lengthened portion is no different than only training midrange or shortened. All three scenarios are missing out. Just like a half repper avoiding the hard part.

 

[klhsx]

I think it's possible that your newfound gains seem to be so dramatic because of the subpar methodology used previously.

its not the case because I was doing 4 second to 8 second negatives for a single rep for sets

if you think about it the slower you come down, the longer your spending with the load on your triceps

That caused my arms to get tired, long before my chest.

It was actually counter productive controlling it that much.

The key insight for me was actually to get through the arm rep range faster, and spend longer in the chest rep range for the bench.

I experimented with counting down for 4 seconds, holding at the bottom 4 seconds, exploding up

counting down 8 seconds, holding for 4 seconds at the bottom, exploding up

and at the very least, coming down for 3 seconds, pausing at the bottom 2 secconds, and coming up.

I spent about 6 months doing this, about 2 months with each style

Going through all the variation is what made me realize, its all about how your doing the move to burn out your arms before your chest.


Now I am at the far extreme, I trying to just remove my arms from bench as much as possible, and deal with them separately.

 

[klhsx]

Only training in the lengthened portion is no different than only training midrange or shortened. All three scenarios are missing out. Just like a half repper avoiding the hard part.

I would have agree years ago, now I dont,

Its an optimization problem.

training those different ranges in a compound move, its completely different because if you do a deep bench, your tricep is not going to get fatigued,

if you do a shallow bench, your chest is not going to get fatigued

your chest and your arms do not equally share the load at the top and the bottom of the ROM.

The load is mostly carried by the triceps above 90 degrees, and mostly by the chest below that. Thats the key realization

 

[klhsx]

Only training in the lengthened portion is no different than only training midrange or shortened. All three scenarios are missing out. Just like a half repper avoiding the hard part.

the reason your not missing out is you do isolation moves separately the next day for the part you missed during the bench

I am avoiding the tricep on the flat bench, because I know the next day I am doing:
tricep extensions with rope,
tricep extensions over my head with dumbell
close grip bench press for triceps
a push down move that jay cutler invented for triceps

Thats 4 tricep moves

 

[klhsx]

so the end result is my chest got pushed farther this way, like way farther,
And also same for my triceps, they got pushed way farther

I stop at the ideal place that I can repeat the moves soon after.

Overall I am getting more gains this way.

When you do full ROM bench, your getting a good tricep workout
When you do shallow bench, your getting a heavier tricep workout

When you do a tricep workout everyday, you stall progress on your triceps, and your too weak to work your chest, so they both actually suffer
I had stalled out and was not progressing with the very slow negatives for this very reason.
Every day was tricep day, and no day was chest day.

 

[Rhyno]

I would have agree years ago, now I dont,

Its an optimization problem.

training those different ranges in a compound move, its completely different because if you do a deep bench, your tricep is not going to get fatigued,

if you do a shallow bench, your chest is not going to get fatigued

your chest and your arms do not equally share the load at the top and the bottom of the ROM.

The load is mostly carried by the triceps above 90 degrees, and mostly by the chest below that. Thats the key realization

You don't do a chest movement for triceps.

the reason your not missing out is you do isolation moves separately the next day for the part you missed during the bench

I am avoiding the tricep on the flat bench, because I know the next day I am doing:
tricep extensions with rope,
tricep extensions over my head with dumbell
close grip bench press for triceps
a push down move that jay cutler invented for triceps

Thats 4 tricep moves

All I see there is a less efficient split with potentially greater amounts of junk volume. It sounds like you're just getting the growth stimulus you would've all along if you trained in a full range.

 

[klhsx]

You don't do a chest movement for triceps.

All I see there is a less efficient split.

your right time wise, you have to train twice as much, or 3 times as much,
but you have more control over how you are loading your body parts

 

[klhsx]

You don't do a chest movement for triceps.

the top part of a flat bench press is mostly triceps

 

[klhsx]

You don't do a chest movement for triceps.

All I see there is a less efficient split with potentially greater amounts of junk volume. It sounds like you're just getting the growth stimulus you would've all along if you trained in a full range.

no because training full range my arms got tired long before I ever felt my chest
Thats why all the experimentation with with depth
Time under tension
emphasizing different time under different regtions of the the ROM


its only junk volume when your not progressing in weight and reps, but I am progressing in both much better now than before

I just add a move slowly, and if I stall I take it out.

The way I am doing the moves im aiming at getting a swollen pump from high volume and stretching in the negative.
I am not trying to beat records, or push hard. I am leaving a lot in reserve, and you can tell because im doing the same number of reps on all sets. When I try to progress, I'm doing the most reps on the last set, more than the earlier sets. Thats the kind of reserve level I have been using lately.
I dont feel burnt out after, but my muscles are swollen visibly, and by feel. Its completely the opposite of how I trained my whole life. Where all the effort went into resistance and contraction, now its about getting a pump, going a bit faster, the pump comes from repeating the rep sooner, if you do it too slow theres no pump.

If I was trying to push as hard as I could , it would be junk volume half way through this routine.

sets look like this

just upped weight, 10, 10, 10
next session 10, 10, 12
next session 10, 12, 12
next session 12,12,12
next session 12, 12, 14
12, 12, 14

up weight
10, 10, 10

so I am really holding back till last set and trying to add the reps there,

Which means really dropping the weight alot, dropping the effort alot till the end

Its just something I noticed Jay Cutler do so I have been trying it

 

[Rhyno]

your right time wise, you have to train twice as much, or 3 times as much,
but you have more control over how you are loading your body parts

This is every program ever made. You always have control over how you target your muscles.

the top part of a flat bench press is mostly triceps

no because training full range my arms got tired long before I ever felt my chest
Thats why all the experimentation with with depth
Time under tension
emphasizing different time under different regtions of the the ROM


its only junk volume when your not progressing in weight and reps, but I am progressing in both much better now than before

I just add a move slowly, and if I stall I take it out.

The way I am doing the moves im aiming at getting a swollen pump from high volume and stretching in the negative.
I am not trying to beat records, or push hard. I am leaving a lot in reserve, and you can tell because im doing the same number of reps on all sets. When I try to progress, I'm doing the most reps on the last set, more than the earlier sets. Thats the kind of reserve level I have been using lately.
I dont feel burnt out after, but my muscles are swollen visibly, and by feel. Its completely the opposite of how I trained my whole life. Where all the effort went into resistance and contraction, now its about getting a pump, going a bit faster, the pump comes from repeating the rep sooner, if you do it too slow theres no pump.

If I was trying to push as hard as I could , it would be junk volume half way through this routine.

Maybe the lock out, front Delta can take over is done incorrectly also.
Like I said, it sounds like you've just learned how to better focus on the target muscles. Time under tension is not what it was once thought to be, it's been debunked as a key driver for hypertrophy like mechanical tension. While it certainly has its places as unstated before, it isn't any better.
If you've found you've gotten a more robust stimulus for growth from changing the way you train that's great, keep enjoying them while they last.

 

[klhsx]

This is every program ever made. You always have control over how you target your muscles.


Maybe the lock out, front Delta can take over is done incorrectly also.
Like I said, it sounds like you've just learned how to better focus on the target muscles. Time under tension is not what it was once thought to be, it's been debunked as a key driver for hypertrophy like mechanical tension. While it certainly has its places as unstated before, it isn't any better.
If you've found you've gotten a more robust stimulus for growth from changing the way you train that's great, keep enjoying them while they last.

yep, and the key thing was to forget about textbook ROMS, and making it feel more difficult, and focus on the feeling, and figure out how to target one muscle over another by feel

One thing for sure, if I didnt go high volume, and lighter still, I never would have gone far enough into stretch zone to activate my chest and back.