cop suffocates man

[vancitybb]

Lol. Ok.

Makes perfect sense not to collect facts and make informed decisions.

How do you know he died because the cop put his knee on his neck? Have you seen the coroner’s report that explains cause of death?

You are jumping to conclusions based on inferences you are making from the limited information you have been presented with.

Again. Not taking sides. Definitely questions to be answered. But they need to actually be answered.... not inferred based on the controlled release of small pieces of information that a media outlet wants you to see.

It's hard to keep your emotions in check when you see something like that, but i agree. They deserve their day in court.

 

[vancitybb]

Riots broke out over this last night. This guy has a bunch of footage in his Twitter timeline

Andy Ngô (@MrAndyNgo) on Twitter

 

[biguglynewf]

It's hard to keep your emotions in check when you see something like that, but i agree. They deserve their day in court.

That is absolutely correct sir. That is probably something that I didn’t consider and should have.

I do understand outrage, emotion and perception. I suppose I don’t acknowledge such as much as some do.

My personality is such that I want to be able to have as much information as I can collect before I make a decision or judge a situation. Sometimes that information is lent available and you have to go with what you have.

In this case though.... there is just more to this story than what is being told at this point.

 

[aGuyFromWinnipeg]

Sometimes people even in cuffs can be a danger to others or even themselves. They had him set on his butt up against the wall and things looked fine and in control at that point. Then the video cuts to him on the ground beside the cruiser with knee on neck.

What happened there? Why was the footage left out? Maybe nothing? Maybe a lot? Maybe the guy was going bananas and they had to hold him down? Maybe the cops were completely overzealous? Why was the guy on the ground for for so long? Why didn’t the cop release his knee from his neck? Did he release it at any point?
That’s not an exactly comfortable position to hold for 10 mins. When did the man actually go VSA? Was it on the pavement? Was it after? How long after? Were drugs actually involved? Etc. Etc. Etc.

The cops were wearing body cameras and knew they were. Why would they commit a murder while knowingly being filmed? Both on their body and by the witnesses present. Did these four individuals just decide to say fuck it.... today I’m going to murder someone by putting my knee on someones neck? The others saying yeah let’s do that and we can watch?

The point is again..... you need to have all the facts collected before you can convict someone of murder.

There is way more to this story than what has been made available and all I’m saying is that should be looked at before any determination is made about anything.

You can all say you have enough to make an informed decision. Unfortunately with what has been released. You are wrong. But then I suppose that is what the flavour is these days.

They may be guilty. But until the story is all out there. Sorry it’s not that simple as everyone thinks it might be.

Not acknowledging that is tremendously short sighted.

You have so many questions in this post, lol. Do I have to answer them all? There is a video that shows the officer with his knee on his neck for 5 minutes. He keeps his knee pinned on his neck until he dies. You can see him there, lifeless for about 30-45 seconds before the officer releases pressure. . It is probably within that 30 to 45 seconds that his life is taken from him. Similar to a choke in a fight not being released. He dies with the officer's knee on his neck. Loaded, dead, onto a stretcher and hauled off. No, I don't have the whole story, but I have enough to base my opinion on it. I'm not a judge, just a guy on a Body Building forum projecting my opinion.

 

[aGuyFromWinnipeg]

George Floyd U.S. protests: Live updates from May 31, 2020

George Floyd's death in police custody has roiled not just Minneapolis but the nation, sparking days of protests.

www.cbsnews.com

some additional footage.

 

[aGuyFromWinnipeg]

Sometimes people even in cuffs can be a danger to others or even themselves. They had him set on his butt up against the wall and things looked fine and in control at that point. Then the video cuts to him on the ground beside the cruiser with knee on neck.

What happened there? Why was the footage left out? Maybe nothing? Maybe a lot? Maybe the guy was going bananas and they had to hold him down? Maybe the cops were completely overzealous? Why was the guy on the ground for for so long? Why didn’t the cop release his knee from his neck? Did he release it at any point?
That’s not an exactly comfortable position to hold for 10 mins. When did the man actually go VSA? Was it on the pavement? Was it after? How long after? Were drugs actually involved? Etc. Etc. Etc.

The cops were wearing body cameras and knew they were. Why would they commit a murder while knowingly being filmed? Both on their body and by the witnesses present. Did these four individuals just decide to say fuck it.... today I’m going to murder someone by putting my knee on someones neck? The others saying yeah let’s do that and we can watch?

The point is again..... you need to have all the facts collected before you can convict someone of murder.

There is way more to this story than what has been made available and all I’m saying is that should be looked at before any determination is made about anything.

You can all say you have enough to make an informed decision. Unfortunately with what has been released. You are wrong. But then I suppose that is what the flavour is these days.

They may be guilty. But until the story is all out there. Sorry it’s not that simple as everyone thinks it might be.

Not acknowledging that is tremendously short sighted.

Here is the full video I watched before passing judgement by the way. at one point the cop even pulls out mace on the people complaining, or perhaps to the 1/2 unconscious guy he's "detaining"

edit.. and in fact it was 3 minutes he kept his knee on his neck while he was un responsive.

 

[biguglynewf]

George Floyd U.S. protests: Live updates from May 31, 2020

George Floyd's death in police custody has roiled not just Minneapolis but the nation, sparking days of protests.

www.cbsnews.com

some additional footage.

Yes questions. My whole point.

That video only shows clips of the event. It isn’t 5 minutes long and does not show him lifeless. Again inferences based on what you think you know.

The fake fire reports with cherry picked information from them (maybe) put up there sure are dramatic though.

I get it. It looks ugly. And it is ugly.

But unless you are privy to all of the information you can’t determine what actually happened.

The mayor seems pretty convinced. I’d like to know what he knows... or doesn’t.

 

[aGuyFromWinnipeg]

Yes questions. My whole point.

That video only shows clips of the event. It isn’t 5 minutes long and does not show him lifeless. Again inferences based on what you think you know.

The fake fire reports with cherry picked information from them (maybe) put up there sure are dramatic though.

I get it. It looks ugly. And it is ugly.

But unless you are privy to all of the information you can’t determine what actually happened.

The mayor seems pretty convinced. I’d like to know what he knows... or doesn’t.

My point is it doesn't matter what happened before. watch the second video I posted. It's in full, un edited.

 

[vancitybb]

George Floyd U.S. protests: Live updates from May 31, 2020

George Floyd's death in police custody has roiled not just Minneapolis but the nation, sparking days of protests.

www.cbsnews.com

some additional footage.

This is unrelated to the point you're making, but look at the first sentence in that link you posted: "Four white officers".

They could have said "four police officers", but they always choose to fan the flames of racial tension.

Now they'll be able to report on the riots breaking out for a few days. Mission accomplished, I guess.

 

[biguglynewf]

Here is the full video I watched before passing judgement by the way. at one point the cop even pulls out mace on the people complaining, or perhaps to the 1/2 unconscious guy he's "detaining"

edit.. and in fact it was 3 minutes he kept his knee on his neck while he was un responsive.

So first thank you for adding something with a little more context.

It’s not a full video. The event started before that. So the snide cunt passive aggressive comments can fuck off. All my position ever was that more needed to be seen. But if you want an argument we can certainly do that.

As it started and was repeated on a loop I was going to say that it’s been entirely fixed for dramatic purpose. But I suppose it was to highlight his pleas for help though. That does show something interesting though and detained noteworthy.

Those two things to note here that I see:

At first while he’s screaming.... he can breathe. You can’t vocalize that well if you can’t breathe. Anyone who has ever been choked will know this well. You can’t yell or scream if you are choking. That is a fact.

Saying that though. It appears as though they were trying to keep him down while waiting for paramedics to arrive. As the man goes quiet and becomes non vocal and unresponsive the officer should have been checking in on him and his level of responsiveness. When he goes out and stops yelling there is an issue that should have been checked. Especially when drug use was suspected to be a factor in how this went down. That is what will nail that cop.

The others? We shall see. The Asian one was more concerned with crowd control than anything else at least with what was shown there.

My guess.... and it’s only a guess. The guy probably was using drugs. It was noted in something already presented and in this video the officer asks him what he in on over and over. Again a guess. Something that interferes with respiration perhaps. Possibly opioids. That coupled with the struggle and the position he was put in for too long without being checked upon while waiting for ems is most likely why he died.

 

[biguglynewf]

Here is the full video I watched before passing judgement by the way. at one point the cop even pulls out mace on the people complaining, or perhaps to the 1/2 unconscious guy he's "detaining"

edit.. and in fact it was 3 minutes he kept his knee on his neck while he was un responsive.

So first thank you for adding something with a little more context.

It’s not a full video. The event started before that. So the snide cunt passive aggressive comments can fuck off. All my position ever was that more needed to be seen. But if you want an argument we can certainly do that.

As it started and was repeated on a loop I was going to say that it’s been entirely fixed for dramatic purpose. But I suppose it was to highlight his pleas for help though. That does show something interesting though and detained noteworthy.

Those two things to note here that I see:

At first while he’s screaming.... he can breathe. You can’t vocalize that well if you can’t breathe. Anyone who has ever been choked will know this well. You can’t yell or scream if you are choking. That is a fact.

Saying that though. It appears as though they were trying to keep him down while waiting for paramedics to arrive. As the man goes quiet and becomes non vocal and unresponsive the officer should have been checking in on him and his level of responsiveness. When he goes out and stops yelling there is an issue that should have been checked. Especially when drug use was suspected to be a factor in how this went down. That is what will nail that cop.

The others? We shall see. The Asian one was more concerned with crowd control than anything else at least with what was shown there.

My guess.... and it’s only a guess. The guy probably was using drugs. It was noted in something already presented and in this video the officer asks him what he in on over and over. Again a guess. Something that interferes with respiration perhaps. Possibly opioids. That coupled with the struggle and the position he was put in for too long without being checked upon while waiting for ems is most likely why he died.

 

[addy]

I havent even watched the video (just 10 seconds) cause I cant watch stuff like this anymore,Ive seen much much worse but its not healthy. Anyways my friend told me this about it

-guy tries to cash a cheque and local business
-employee thinks its forged and calls cops
-cops show up and arrest the guy
-put him in handcuffs and put him to the ground
-cop steps on his carotid artery for 5+ minutes and guy goes braindead
-people just watching with their phones filming the whole thing

just sickening stuff. I wont be surprised to hear the cop was a racist but IMHO thats half the story and shouldnt really matter, I think the cop just wanted to snuff someone out and he achieved that. I say "cops" but they are technically "subhuman". I know there are a few good cops out there but its the very very very small majority. Usually they will be manipulated and arm twisted into following the rest of the department....

 

[vancitybb]

I really hate to be that guy, but everyone is calling this a case of suffocation (blocked airway), when it appears to be a case of strangulation (blocked bloodflow).

I'm just going by the location of the knee on the carotid. I agree with @biguglynewf that the mechanism of death may be unrelated to what we are seeing.

At the end of the day, this man lost his life and that is undeniably sad. I hate the idea that his loved ones have to see his last moments like this. I can't imagine if this was somebody I love.

 

[aGuyFromWinnipeg]

So first thank you for adding something with a little more context.

It’s not a full video. The event started before that. So the snide cunt passive aggressive comments can fuck off. All my position ever was that more needed to be seen. But if you want an argument we can certainly do that.

As it started and was repeated on a loop I was going to say that it’s been entirely fixed for dramatic purpose. But I suppose it was to highlight his pleas for help though. That does show something interesting though and detained noteworthy.

Those two things to note here that I see:

At first while he’s screaming.... he can breathe. You can’t vocalize that well if you can’t breathe. Anyone who has ever been choked will know this well. You can’t yell or scream if you are choking. That is a fact.

Saying that though. It appears as though they were trying to keep him down while waiting for paramedics to arrive. As the man goes quiet and becomes non vocal and unresponsive the officer should have been checking in on him and his level of responsiveness. When he goes out and stops yelling there is an issue that should have been checked. Especially when drug use was suspected to be a factor in how this went down. That is what will nail that cop.

The others? We shall see. The Asian one was more concerned with crowd control than anything else at least with what was shown there.

My guess.... and it’s only a guess. The guy probably was using drugs. It was noted in something already presented and in this video the officer asks him what he in on over and over. Again a guess. Something that interferes with respiration perhaps. Possibly opioids. That coupled with the struggle and the position he was put in for too long without being checked upon while waiting for ems is most likely why he died.

I don't really want an argument, but if you quote me I feel obligated to respond. I felt I had enough info to pass judgement, so I did.

 

[resilient1]

So first thank you for adding something with a little more context.

It’s not a full video. The event started before that. So the snide cunt passive aggressive comments can fuck off. All my position ever was that more needed to be seen. But if you want an argument we can certainly do that.

As it started and was repeated on a loop I was going to say that it’s been entirely fixed for dramatic purpose. But I suppose it was to highlight his pleas for help though. That does show something interesting though and detained noteworthy.

Those two things to note here that I see:

At first while he’s screaming.... he can breathe. You can’t vocalize that well if you can’t breathe. Anyone who has ever been choked will know this well. You can’t yell or scream if you are choking. That is a fact.

Saying that though. It appears as though they were trying to keep him down while waiting for paramedics to arrive. As the man goes quiet and becomes non vocal and unresponsive the officer should have been checking in on him and his level of responsiveness. When he goes out and stops yelling there is an issue that should have been checked. Especially when drug use was suspected to be a factor in how this went down. That is what will nail that cop.

The others? We shall see. The Asian one was more concerned with crowd control than anything else at least with what was shown there.

My guess.... and it’s only a guess. The guy probably was using drugs. It was noted in something already presented and in this video the officer asks him what he in on over and over. Again a guess. Something that interferes with respiration perhaps. Possibly opioids. That coupled with the struggle and the position he was put in for too long without being checked upon while waiting for ems is most likely why he died.

I don't care if he was on drugs, and he sure as shit didn't look like he was whacked on fentanyl or opiods. I was in a serious accident, dealt with years of debilitating chronic pain, and as such have extensive experience with very high doses of painkillers. The only time I would have had some respiratory distress while on pain meds was when the pain and dosage was so high that I was incapable of doing much of anything. In such a state you're not putting up a fight or a struggle, you're barely conscious.

You can vocalize to a point, while having your neck squeezed. I've always had a strong, thick neck, and if you flex the muscles in your neck, which you can see this guy doing, provided there isn't direct pressure to the windpipe, which there is not, one can vocalize. The knee wasn't directly on his larynx, it was on his carotid artery, the other artery would have been compressed against the pavement. Putting sideways pressure would have gradually constricted his windpipe, but pressure on the arteries is how you put someone out. Continued pressure is how you kill someone.

The guy is restrained, not moving, not struggling, and there are a couple instances in which the cop shifts his body and presses his full weight, sinking his knee into his neck. You can see his neck bend and sink to the pavement, not to mention the shock on his face. He was pleading while pressure was being applied, up to a point. The pressure on his neck 'appeared' to be an effort to silence him, which is a total power/control move. Lastly, I would bet this man was terrified in that moment, in light of so many other unjustified or questionable deaths of black men.

I am trying to be as charitable as possible, but any moron with training knows you should be careful when applying pressure to the neck. Furthermore, and this is the biggest point, the guy was handcuffed and on the ground. It is stupid simple to maintain control when someone's hands are cuffed behind their back and they are lying on the ground. There were two officers walking him when he went down, and then one decided to kneel on his neck?

 

[aGuyFromWinnipeg]

This is unrelated to the point you're making, but look at the first sentence in that link you posted: "Four white officers".

They could have said "four police officers", but they always choose to fan the flames of racial tension.

Now they'll be able to report on the riots breaking out for a few days. Mission accomplished, I guess.

I didn't even notice that, pretty sure one was Asian.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[biguglynewf]

I don't care if he was on drugs, and he sure as shit didn't look like he was whacked on fentanyl or opiods. I was in a serious accident, dealt with years of debilitating chronic pain, and as such have extensive experience with very high doses of painkillers. The only time I would have had some respiratory distress while on pain meds was when the pain and dosage was so high that I was incapable of doing much of anything. In such a state you're not putting up a fight or a struggle, you're barely conscious.

You can vocalize to a point, while having your neck squeezed. I've always had a strong, thick neck, and if you flex the muscles in your neck, which you can see this guy doing, provided there isn't direct pressure to the windpipe, which there is not, one can vocalize. The knee wasn't directly on his larynx, it was on his carotid artery, the other artery would have been compressed against the pavement. Putting sideways pressure would have gradually constricted his windpipe, but pressure on the arteries is how you put someone out. Continued pressure is how you kill someone.

The guy is restrained, not moving, not struggling, and there are a couple instances in which the cop shifts his body and presses his full weight, sinking his knee into his neck. You can see his neck bend and sink to the pavement, not to mention the shock on his face. He was pleading while pressure was being applied, up to a point. The pressure on his neck 'appeared' to be an effort to silence him, which is a total power/control move. Lastly, I would bet this man was terrified in that moment, in light of so many other unjustified or questionable deaths of black men.

I am trying to be as charitable as possible, but any moron with training knows you should be careful when applying pressure to the neck. Furthermore, and this is the biggest point, the guy was handcuffed and on the ground. It is stupid simple to maintain control when someone's hands are cuffed behind their back and they are lying on the ground. There were two officers walking him when he went down, and then one decided to kneel on his neck?

You still have no idea. Most if not all of what you said is at best forming opinions on guesswork and personal bias. Lol.

Sorry doesn’t cut it. And throw that race crap out the window. It’s tired and can’t be a fact in issue until that is actually established. Convenient sensationalism at its finest.

Winnipeg’s video shows what at least one problem is and I acknowledged that after I viewed it.

I had not been afforded the opportunity to see anything more than the clips that have been posted and those didn’t even begin to tell any part of a story. The video Winnipeg posted though does seem to show an issue.

Again to be noted is that I have never taken the position of justified or not. Only that I wanted to see more information before making my decision. To be truthful.... I’d still like to see more.

The issue that won’t be defendable is the copper should have been checking on the guy’s well being while he had him down for an extended period of time while waiting for ems. There were indicators there that he should have been aware of. Namely the fact that he is yelling and fighting at first, but then silences and stops moving.

Again especially if they called paramedics because they suspected drug use or issues were a concern.

 

[Cumminstech2]

So first thank you for adding something with a little more context.

It’s not a full video. The event started before that. So the snide cunt passive aggressive comments can fuck off. All my position ever was that more needed to be seen. But if you want an argument we can certainly do that.

As it started and was repeated on a loop I was going to say that it’s been entirely fixed for dramatic purpose. But I suppose it was to highlight his pleas for help though. That does show something interesting though and detained noteworthy.

Those two things to note here that I see:

At first while he’s screaming.... he can breathe. You can’t vocalize that well if you can’t breathe. Anyone who has ever been choked will know this well. You can’t yell or scream if you are choking. That is a fact.

Saying that though. It appears as though they were trying to keep him down while waiting for paramedics to arrive. As the man goes quiet and becomes non vocal and unresponsive the officer should have been checking in on him and his level of responsiveness. When he goes out and stops yelling there is an issue that should have been checked. Especially when drug use was suspected to be a factor in how this went down. That is what will nail that cop.

The others? We shall see. The Asian one was more concerned with crowd control than anything else at least with what was shown there.

My guess.... and it’s only a guess. The guy probably was using drugs. It was noted in something already presented and in this video the officer asks him what he in on over and over. Again a guess. Something that interferes with respiration perhaps. Possibly opioids. That coupled with the struggle and the position he was put in for too long without being checked upon while waiting for ems is most likely why he died.

so I guess the discrepancy between us is that you don’t believe there is enough evidence to say the cop killed him, and I believe there is. Fair enough, but I will say that guessing he’s on drugs is pretty disrespectful. The whole reason the cops were called is because he tried paying at a store with a Counterfeit 20$ bill.

The store released their security camera footage and there was absolutely no resistance. The whole drug thing came from one of the cops saying “don’t do drugs kids” to the crowd, which does not mean he’s on drugs. I’ve been accused of shit I did not do by cops, they like to assume these kind of things because it makes it easier in their minds to justify being tyrant.

And honestly even if the autopsy came back saying it was drugs and the kneeling on the neck was a compounding factor, I still believe there to be enough evidence that the cop killed him. They are not allowed to put the knee on the neck like that because it is a dangerous hold. That hold is against department regulations.

Even if they were to say he was on any drugs, I still believe that he would be alive today if not for the knee in the neck, so I feel there is enough evidence to say the cop killed him, regardless of the autopsy. Plus I don’t entirely trust autopsy’s in a scenerio like this anyways.. I have seen first hand what they will do to protect their own.

I have seen enough and gathered enough evidence to come to the decision that I believe the cop killed him. If you want more evidence to make your own decision, cool. If some really outstanding and reliable evidence came up exonerating the cop, then I’ll change my mind, but right now I believe I have seen enough to say without any reasonable doubt that he was murdered.

I honestly deleted facebook and social media like 2 weeks ago just to stay out of stuff like this, but tyranny is something I’m very passionately against so I couldn’t resist in this one lol

 

[biguglynewf]

so I guess the discrepancy between us is that you don’t believe there is enough evidence to say the cop killed him, and I believe there is. Fair enough, but I will say that guessing he’s on drugs is pretty disrespectful. The whole reason the cops were called is because he tried paying at a store with a Counterfeit 20$ bill.

The store released their security camera footage and there was absolutely no resistance. The whole drug thing came from one of the cops saying “don’t do drugs kids” to the crowd, which does not mean he’s on drugs. I’ve been accused of shit I did not do by cops, they like to assume these kind of things because it makes it easier in their minds to justify being tyrant.

And honestly even if the autopsy came back saying it was drugs and the kneeling on the neck was a compounding factor, I still believe there to be enough evidence that the cop killed him. They are not allowed to put the knee on the neck like that because it is a dangerous hold. That hold is against department regulations.

Even if they were to say he was on any drugs, I still believe that he would be alive today if not for the knee in the neck, so I feel there is enough evidence to say the cop killed him, regardless of the autopsy. Plus I don’t entirely trust autopsy’s in a scenerio like this anyways.. I have seen first hand what they will do to protect their own.

I have seen enough and gathered enough evidence to come to the decision that I believe the cop killed him. If you want more evidence to make your own decision, cool. If some really outstanding and reliable evidence came up exonerating the cop, then I’ll change my mind, but right now I believe I have seen enough to say without any reasonable doubt that he was murdered.

I honestly deleted facebook and social media like 2 weeks ago just to stay out of stuff like this, but tyranny is something I’m very passionately against so I couldn’t resist in this one lol

Jesus Christ.

Did you even read my posts? Obviously not.

Maybe do that eh? But since you seem to need this.... ok. I’ll bite....

You haven’t gathered any evidence at all...lol. You have seen what the media has allowed you to see. And whether you can figure it out or not on your own.... that is a far cry from gathering evidence. You have pieced together the limited information that you have access to and have come up with a belief that you know what happened. Sorry. You don’t.

But since you’re such a subject matter expert and know everything from your fulsome investigation into this matter. Tell me, why did the police call for ems?

And fuck off with the “Ive been accused by the cops” shit. It’s not even remotely relevant and only illustrates your biases and why you are drawing your conclusions. You know what that is? Prejudice.

You’ve seen first hand how they protect their own. Wonderful. Tell me what that has to do with people that reside in a completely different country with an issue that has nothing to do with you or your experiences. Again pure bias tainting your non objective beliefs. Again prejudice.

You don’t trust autopsy’s. Hmmm. Here’s a quick tip clever. Police don’t do autopsy’s. It doesn’t actually work like you see things on TV. So are you saying that the police and doctors that rarely interact are collaborating in some massive conspiracy to hide cause of deaths? Please tell me what that looks like and how it works.

Tyranny? Holy fuck. What are you even talking about? Lmfao! You silver spoon snowflake types should get out in the world and see for yourself what tyranny actually is before you throw that term around so conveniently from your cozy comfort afforded to you in Canada.

AGAIN (for fuck sakes.... I don’t know why this is so hard to grasp)

My position was NEVER that the actions of the police were appropriate or not appropriate. It was only that I wanted to see more information before I made up my mind. After Winnipeg posted the longer video which showed the officer with his knee on his neck for an extended period of time without checking on the man’s wellness after being very vocal and struggling, then not. Did I not say that would be damming and was an issue that he will be made accountable for?

The answer by the way was yes.

But yet you still want to argue with me for some reason? Fuck.

 

[addy]

hey guys you both bring up really good points but lets not argue between us too much because I dont want to be responsible for any online fights here and its not necessary, just agree to disagree please. I only made this cause I was so upset in the moment when I heard it and wanted to share to see what everyone else thought. Lets keep it friendly. peace and love and stuff☮