Aromasin Vs Arimadex primarily for sebum reduction and acne

5-8%advantage

5-8%advantage

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Kind of a different post, potentially. I am curious about what the seasoned and more experienced members feel would be a more appropriate AI to take to balance or counteract sebum production and acne specifically. I have responded/tolerated both aromasin and arimadex as well, and have found both to be effective, in terms of reducing or eliminating other estrogenic sides previously.

To provide a bit of context, I was running a relatively mild cycle, but with a few different items and had increased skin oiliness and acne, on the shoulders primarily, come on fast and fierce at the end of a 10 week blast.
I was running:
300mg TEST/ week
300mg MAST/ week
25mg Proviron/ day
2 IU per day of HGH
500 IU every other day of hCG

The acne really came about, I believe, around the time I started using the hCG. I was essentially at the end of my blast of approximately Seven weeks, was originally planning on going 8 to 10, but I decided to cut things back to my TRT dosage of 125 mg per week to see if that would level things out on the acne. Initially I think it got worse for a few weeks. 8 weeks back into my TRT dosage now and it SEEMS to be starting to clear up, but still have super greasy skin and my scalp is starting to itch a bit…..

Is it crazy to think about an AI on a TRT dosage? Or would it be reasonable to try something like 1mg Arimidex EOD for a week or two to see if started making a difference.

And yes, I will acknowledge that bloods first is the more responsible thing to do, but I’m in a rural part of the country and it’s a major pain to get bloods done….

Thanks in advance for any and all feedback
 
Ah yes the acne. Are you E3D? Without bloods you are guessing but it sounds like high estrogen. On TRT not likely and not worth trying until the system settles down. Arimidex will bind and dissolve aromasin is a suicide so it renders estrogen inert. I like aromasin as it's a bit more gentle and forgiving. I ususally add in a 12.5mg E3D at about the 10wk mark but I'm not a mast user. That should help but at the end of a cycle it's aromasin all the way for me to clear out the inbalace as quick as I can.... responsibly
 
I've never used an AI. Just ran EQ, primo or mast with the test and deca. I was super fat too. Once on a long deca test cycle my nips got super puffy and itchy and If I squeezed one it would produce a clear liquid. Nolva always stopped it within a few days. With high EQ I would eventually get low e2 sides HCG or Dbol would help.
 
5-8%advantage said:
I was debating…..but I’ve heard it can fuck you for sebum production for life pretty damn easy
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I like the low dose method. Never really had any negative side to speak of.
I don’t think I’ve ever gone above 20 or 25mg EOD. I’d have to look back at my notes for more accuracy but it was around that.
Doesn’t take much for me to keep the acne to a minimum but without it my back is a fuckin mess on a good blast.
 
5-8%advantage said:
Kind of a different post, potentially. I am curious about what the seasoned and more experienced members feel would be a more appropriate AI to take to balance or counteract sebum production and acne specifically. I have responded/tolerated both aromasin and arimadex as well, and have found both to be effective, in terms of reducing or eliminating other estrogenic sides previously.

To provide a bit of context, I was running a relatively mild cycle, but with a few different items and had increased skin oiliness and acne, on the shoulders primarily, come on fast and fierce at the end of a 10 week blast.
I was running:
300mg TEST/ week
300mg MAST/ week
25mg Proviron/ day
2 IU per day of HGH
500 IU every other day of hCG

The acne really came about, I believe, around the time I started using the hCG. I was essentially at the end of my blast of approximately Seven weeks, was originally planning on going 8 to 10, but I decided to cut things back to my TRT dosage of 125 mg per week to see if that would level things out on the acne. Initially I think it got worse for a few weeks. 8 weeks back into my TRT dosage now and it SEEMS to be starting to clear up, but still have super greasy skin and my scalp is starting to itch a bit…..

Is it crazy to think about an AI on a TRT dosage? Or would it be reasonable to try something like 1mg Arimidex EOD for a week or two to see if started making a difference.

And yes, I will acknowledge that bloods first is the more responsible thing to do, but I’m in a rural part of the country and it’s a major pain to get bloods done….

Thanks in advance for any and all feedback
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Really wish I could help and answer the Adex vs Asin question but I've never had the issue and have never had to dig into it.
My first gut reaction would be Asin because it's suicidal, It "kills" aromatase which means no E2 can be produced that way. Overall it's the better choice IMO, better lipid profile etc. Although as per normal not the best fit for everyone.
On the other hand Adex does a better job of inhibiting Sulfatase than E2. Sulfatase has a relationship with Acne so perhaps it's the better choice for this situation but I don't understand that relationship to be sure of anything about it.

"Is it crazy to think about an AI on a TRT dosage?" No. Some will argue that strongly. But It has it's place. I'm very gyno sensitive, 40+ years into that battle. If I reach about 800ng/dl and don't exercise some form of AI like control I will flare up. That's a legit higher end TRT level in my books.

"Or would it be reasonable to try something like 1mg Arimidex EOD for a week or two to see if started making a difference."
That's a pretty hefty dose especially at your TRT dose of test, just sayin. Adex is susceptible to the dreaded "Estrogen rebound". You could end up in a chaotic scramble trying to get stable again. Minimal dosing would be much less risky.

The T produced through Hcg use has been thought of as aromatizing at a higher rate than natty or exo T for a long time, I've not yet heard of anything disproving this lately so your observation makes sense at least theoretically.
 
Accutane is a sledgehammer to acne like letro is to estrogen. Won't lie. It works and I have many grams of it on hand but I don't enjoy it at all. It works plain and simple. I break out really bad with E3D injections at high dosage. Gusher pops when they happen. Accutane is total dosage related so IF I wish cross that threshold then voila the problem typically goes away for good but that takes a lot of dosage depending upon body weight but here is the deal. The dosage is 40mg/gel cap and cannot be split. My dosage at 21yrs old and 160lbs was 80mg/d divided dosage for 6mths to attain saturation. That is about 15 grams. That's a lot. I had to do monthly bloods and got every side in the book in no time flat.

With a back and shoulders full of zits I take 50mg/d and it clears up within 6wks. This was then know I don't do what I did to get all the zits so I don't use Accutane anymore and won't unless I can't get away with it. My bloods did show nastiness when I was on back then.
 
RigPig said:
I like the low dose method. Never really had any negative side to speak of.
I don’t think I’ve ever gone above 20 or 25mg EOD. I’d have to look back at my notes for more accuracy but it was around that.
Doesn’t take much for me to keep the acne to a minimum but without it my back is a fuckin mess on a good blast.
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This is what I’m finding as well….
Might have to give ‘er a try
 
gondar1 said:
Really wish I could help and answer the Adex vs Asin question but I've never had the issue and have never had to dig into it.
My first gut reaction would be Asin because it's suicidal, It "kills" aromatase which means no E2 can be produced that way. Overall it's the better choice IMO, better lipid profile etc. Although as per normal not the best fit for everyone.
On the other hand Adex does a better job of inhibiting Sulfatase than E2. Sulfatase has a relationship with Acne so perhaps it's the better choice for this situation but I don't understand that relationship to be sure of anything about it.

"Is it crazy to think about an AI on a TRT dosage?" No. Some will argue that strongly. But It has it's place. I'm very gyno sensitive, 40+ years into that battle. If I reach about 800ng/dl and don't exercise some form of AI like control I will flare up. That's a legit higher end TRT level in my books.

"Or would it be reasonable to try something like 1mg Arimidex EOD for a week or two to see if started making a difference."
That's a pretty hefty dose especially at your TRT dose of test, just sayin. Adex is susceptible to the dreaded "Estrogen rebound". You could end up in a chaotic scramble trying to get stable again. Minimal dosing would be much less risky.

The T produced through Hcg use has been thought of as aromatizing at a higher rate than natty or exo T for a long time, I've not yet heard of anything disproving this lately so your observation makes sense at least theoretically.
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@gondar1 surprised to hear that 1mg EOD would be considered heavy….
What would your recommended minimal dose be to possible still have an effect?
 
5-8%advantage said:
@gondar1 surprised to hear that 1mg EOD would be considered heavy….
What would your recommended minimal dose be to possible still have an effect?
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Note that my answer was heavily influenced by personal experience but some from others too. Adex seems to be susceptible to "over-responder syndrome". There are some members here who can't/don't use it because nailing the dose is really finicky for them.
So I'm really only stating an opinion in the end, there is no exact science for any drugs but this one in particular is sensitive to each of our individual physiology.
Having said that, gun to my head, I'd answer - half that as a starting point. That's not the minimal dose but hopefully a good starting point that won't get you into too much trouble if too high.

Rocky is not one to make statements without having investigated first -
Rocky said:
actually aromatase inhibitors increase sebum production
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Interesting. Anything else you can give a quick comment on bud? Both types? Mechanism of action? Thanks
 
gondar1 said:
Note that my answer was heavily influenced by personal experience but some from others too. Adex seems to be susceptible to "over-responder syndrome". There are some members here who can't/don't use it because nailing the dose is really finicky for them.
So I'm really only stating an opinion in the end, there is no exact science for any drugs but this one in particular is sensitive to each of our individual physiology.
Having said that, gun to my head, I'd answer - half that as a starting point. That's not the minimal dose but hopefully a good starting point that won't get you into too much trouble if too high.

Rocky is not one to make statements without having investigated first -

Interesting. Anything else you can give a quick comment on bud? Both types? Mechanism of action? Thanks
Click to expand...
Yeah I’d be curious to hear the mechanism behind this as well….
 
gondar1 said:
Note that my answer was heavily influenced by personal experience but some from others too. Adex seems to be susceptible to "over-responder syndrome". There are some members here who can't/don't use it because nailing the dose is really finicky for them.
So I'm really only stating an opinion in the end, there is no exact science for any drugs but this one in particular is sensitive to each of our individual physiology.
Having said that, gun to my head, I'd answer - half that as a starting point. That's not the minimal dose but hopefully a good starting point that won't get you into too much trouble if too high.

Rocky is not one to make statements without having investigated first -

Interesting. Anything else you can give a quick comment on bud? Both types? Mechanism of action? Thanks
Click to expand...
I’ll post some studies when I’m home but I remember reading about acne and lower estrogen causes higher sebum production in both males and females and estrogen decreases sebum production
 
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@gondar1 after reading into it a bit more briefly, it seems a bit inconclusive in terms of if taking aromatase inhibitors would increase sebum production, although a lot of research does say that estrogen decreases sebum production by some mechanism involving inhibiting/decreasing signals to produce sebum through the glands, it's also shown that only high levels of estrogen cause this
although a lot of the research is quite old, also 'high' levels of estrogen from the dosages I saw weren't that high, lower than typical female levels of estrogen and I'd say it was around mid-high levels of male estrogen levels.

So I guess it would be to what extent your estrogen levels decreased from taking aromatase inhibitors, i.e I guess if you had high (irregularly high levels of estrogen) and you brought your levels down to normal (not low) then you may not increase sebum production.

low estrogen had no effect on sebum production (i.e giving low doses of estrogen to patients caused no decrease in sebum production)
I think the hypothesis' were that estrogen counter'd the androgens effects on increase sebum production but I dont think they ever tested this.

I still think this does conclude that aromatase inhibition would increase sebum production since it would decrease estrogen levels to lower normal or even lower than normal and high estrogen levels seems to only have positive effects (decreased sebum production). I have found the same when taking aromatase inhibitors, in that it increases sebum production and worsens acne, in my experience at least, especially when taking androgens/steroids

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Hormonal treatment of acne vulgaris: an update

Acne vulgaris is a common skin condition associated with multiple factors. Although mostly presenting alone, it can likewise present with features of hyperandrogenism and hormonal discrepancies. Of note, hormonal therapies are indicated in severe, resistant-to-treatment ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Estrogen​

High-dose estrogen exerts a negative feedback on the gonadal axis. This results in the reduction of sebaceous gland size and concomitantly reduced sebum formation. Estrogen receptor (ER)α is localized in sebocytes only, while ERβ is found to be highly expressed in sebocytes, keratinocytes, melanocytes, dermal fibroblasts, endothelial cells, and adipocytes.17

Estrogen may influence sebum formation through 1) negative feedback inhibition of gonadal axis, 2) increased production of sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) by the liver, thereby decreasing free serum testosterone, 3) counteracting directly the action of testosterone in the sebocytes, and 4) influencing the genetic regulation of sebaceous gland and sebocyte formation.
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The effect of estrogens on sebaceous gland cell turnover time was measured in four adult male volunteers administered 1 mg of ethinyl estradiol daily for six weeks. Two of the subjects were continued on ethinyl estradiol for an additional six weeks during which time 100 mg of methyl testosterone was administered orally per day together with the estrogen. Biopsies were obtained from the non-hairy area of the cheek 40 minutes subsequent to the intradermal injection of 10 microcuries of tritiated thymidine. During the administration of 1 mg of ethinyl estradiol, a decrease of approximately 50% in the labeling index of the human sebaceous gland and its germinative layer was observed. When 100 mg of methyl testosterone was administered concomitantly with the estrogen, the labeling indices returned toward normal. The changes in the labeling indices were accompanied by corresponding changes in sebum production.
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HCG makes me break out big time. I basically stopped taking it as part of my TRT protocol because of it. I do like the boys to be fuller so I take a couple of 250ui doses every 2-3 months just to prevent total shrinkage. Even then, this causes me a bit of breakout.
 
**UPDATE**

Looks like I’ve got it figured out folks……
I’m 100% sure it was the HCG that caused me to explode…..
I’ve since dropped it, and swapped my TRT to thrice per week (M W F)…..
ALSO……using low dose doxycycline (as prescribed by TRT docs) and two showers per day with 5% Benzoyl Peroxide wash followed by some fancy probiotic moisturizer from the wife’s favorite brand……
Also taking a shitload of collagen per day….

I’ll tell you though……the acne came fast and fierce……and the blemishes and marks as well as the zits themselves are taking forEVER…..
As said, on the right track now though…..
 
5-8%advantage said:
**UPDATE**

Looks like I’ve got it figured out folks……
I’m 100% sure it was the HCG that caused me to explode…..
I’ve since dropped it, and swapped my TRT to thrice per week (M W F)…..
ALSO……using low dose doxycycline (as prescribed by TRT docs) and two showers per day with 5% Benzoyl Peroxide wash followed by some fancy probiotic moisturizer from the wife’s favorite brand……
Also taking a shitload of collagen per day….

I’ll tell you though……the acne came fast and fierce……and the blemishes and marks as well as the zits themselves are taking forEVER…..
As said, on the right track now though…..
Click to expand...

Might have woken up some old brain cells, I have this thought that I may have been put on doxycycline when I was a young pizza faced lad, around puberty.
I had pretty bad acne on my face and gyno at puberty. Interestingly my T levels were literally off the scale (I assume they meant out of range) natty when I was a young guy too although I only had that tested years after puberty. I don't think I considered that relationship to my acne anytime recently till just now, though I'm sure it was brought up back then.

How long can you stay on the doxy? Seems like the common train of thought is that long term use of antibiotic is generally bad, IDK but would welcome anyone's comments.
 
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Ever think of running less or no dht based compounds as they give more acne than test or 19nor based compounds?
Your cycle had more dht compounds than test! And then your concerned about acne?
Maybe im misinformed but im pretty damn sure high dht makes for a greasy mother fucker. Its been true for me and anyone i know in person that runs gear. The other culprit being shit quality poorly filtered gear aswell with predisposition.
 
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