400 Calorie Deficit But no fat dropping!!?

[ajfromab]

Yes I am 100% fixing all this up. But now is it not safe to think no matter what the diet is if it comes down to calories in calories out and if I’m frigging staving myself and still lifting heavy and maintaining muscle mass should I not still just drop the fat anyway?

So you might think that but no. If your body is in shock the gear does one thing protects what you have . However it is far easier for your body to burn off muscle as fuel than it is to burn off fat as fuel . If you aren’t hitting your needs your body wants to protect its organs . So it goes what do I have to do to not die . And it does whatever it can to maintain.

I am also 5’10 same as you and I am also 15% bf. But I am also 226 lbs. when I diet down the fat peels off and I can eat easily over 3000 calories a day as long as I am eating good clean food and still lose fat. Your body needs muscle to function and it need those muscles fed properly. If your nutrition is dialed in it literally peels off.

A guy your size eating the right food will put on 15-20 lbs easy on a test only cycle and probably drop 3-5 -% bf at the same time if you dial in your nutrition

 

[bc__boy]

I am also 15% bf. But I am also 226 lbs. when I diet down the fat peels off and I can eat easily over 3000 calories a day as long as I am eating good clean food and still lose fat. Your body needs muscle to function and it need those muscles fed properly. If your nutrition is dialed in it literally peels off.

What does your diet typically consist of? Thanks .

 

[The Caped Crusader]

Hi Guys I need help,

I have been in a 400 Calorie Deficit for over a month now. I am on 600mg Test, 400mg Masteron, 40mg Anavar everyday. I am training hard and my lifts are going up each week. High protein diet. I can’t get rid of this belly fat for the life of me. Any suggestions?

You are not fucking enough daily buddy. Fix that and check back in with us!

 

[ajfromab]

What does your diet typically consist of? Thanks .

usually the same stuff sometimes it changes

Breakfast 1 cup egg whites 2 whole eggs some fruit either a banana or an orange bowl of oatmeal with some honey

Three meals during the day usually chicken rice and veggies or beef rice and veggies , or instead of rice potato’s and it’s almost always 200 grams of whatever carb or so I just eyeball now because I’m not trying to lose weight and about 7 or 8 oz of beef or chicken
Sometimes I’ll swap the potato’s or rice for rice cakes or cream of rice or oatmeal. Chicken and fish can be swapped anytime. Beef and salmon can be swapped anytime .

After workout usually a shake with a bunch of spinach a couple shots of whey and two bananas whenever I workout

before bed always some Greek yogurt or cottage cheese
Usually aim to eat six times a day total.
And if I’m leaning out all I do is get rid of sauces and sugars and slowly lower carbs and watch the mirror.

If I was gonna chase low body fat percentages like under 10% it would look much different though

 

[gondar1]

So you might think that but no. If your body is in shock the gear does one thing protects what you have . However it is far easier for your body to burn off muscle as fuel than it is to burn off fat as fuel * . If you aren’t hitting your needs your body wants to protect its organs . So it goes what do I have to do to not die . And it does whatever it can to maintain.

Replied to but not really aimed at @ajfromab mor towards the thread in general and the OP @MattVig ...

Good and important info here. This is stuff is often overlooked. Protection mode is a real thing. We know that fat has approx 9 cals per g and protein (large component of muscle) has about 4. This makes fat more valuable. CICO is still a thing but what folks often miss is that the CO part is subject to variability within the system not just externally - ie "move more". In an extreme deficit your body will make metabolic adaptations to preserve the more valued resource, the fat. I put the * up there because I'm not sure that is exactly correct or maybe just needs different wording.. Though it may appear that way iirc what is happening is that the lipolysis process can not keep up with demand. the body can break down protein at a faster rate so the body starts shifting the rate/percentage more towards muscle than fat.

Assuming any of that is somewhat correct and then combining the fact that in general subq fat comes off of the body at almost the same rate in every location it seems to me that there is a pretty good chance that what is happening here is not such a big mystery.

My expert opinion as a former ceramic engineer:

- To large a deficit causes large metabolic adaptations- hormones, non essential functions and in general slowing of metabolism
- AAS overcomes some of the shifted energy demands in a protective and anabolic manner
- Fat is coming off but weight is not changing much due to water retention, sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and some myofibrillar hypertrophy
- Belly appears to be holding fat disproportionately because that is where the thickest layer of fat is.

I would - fix diet, decrease deficit as per my first post and drop AAS dose way down because that anti catabolic action has a pretty low cap so you are stressing your body for nothing.
I'll emphasize one more time to get your nutritional info from the proper, non crowd sources places. Other than to help visualize portion sizes I think one should give thought to whether that weigh things raw or cooked. Top example is meat, take my xlean ground beef shrinks about 30% when cooked but is it actually losing any noteworthy protein, fat or cals? I think not.

 

[libo]

How on earth you did you come up with that macro ratio. The squirrel in my backyard eats more then you do, drop the gear and start over with a coach.

 

[Funnyman]

How on earth you did you come up with that macro ratio. The squirrel in my backyard eats more then you do, drop the gear and start over with a coach.

You know some people smoke pot, and are baked.

 

[libo]

You know some people smoke pot, and are baked.

If he was baked he would be eating more lol.

@MattVig sorry man were not trying to make this a roast but it's hard not too. We do want to help, but how you came up with the cycle protocol and meal plan is beyond most of us so it's fun to poke.

That being said. I agree with everyone else here you definitely need to increase your calories, and thyroid panel IS something to look into now that you've stated your meal plan depending how long you've been at those calories you're metabolism is likely throttled. Get on the right supplements, adjust the the diet, maybe a short deload & allow stress to come down. Then do it again the right way with much higher protein.

You can get to 7% body fat with far less gear, way more food and without counting calories meticulously.

How many cycles and diet preps is this for you?

 

[Sorbate]

Replied to but not really aimed at @ajfromab mor towards the thread in general and the OP @MattVig ...

Good and important info here. This is stuff is often overlooked. Protection mode is a real thing. We know that fat has approx 9 cals per g and protein (large component of muscle) has about 4. This makes fat more valuable. CICO is still a thing but what folks often miss is that the CO part is subject to variability within the system not just externally - ie "move more". In an extreme deficit your body will make metabolic adaptations to preserve the more valued resource, the fat. I put the * up there because I'm not sure that is exactly correct or maybe just needs different wording.. Though it may appear that way iirc what is happening is that the lipolysis process can not keep up with demand. the body can break down protein at a faster rate so the body starts shifting the rate/percentage more towards muscle than fat.

Assuming any of that is somewhat correct and then combining the fact that in general subq fat comes off of the body at almost the same rate in every location it seems to me that there is a pretty good chance that what is happening here is not such a big mystery.

My expert opinion as a former ceramic engineer:

- To large a deficit causes large metabolic adaptations- hormones, non essential functions and in general slowing of metabolism
- AAS overcomes some of the shifted energy demands in a protective and anabolic manner
- Fat is coming off but weight is not changing much due to water retention, sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and some myofibrillar hypertrophy
- Belly appears to be holding fat disproportionately because that is where the thickest layer of fat is.

I would - fix diet, decrease deficit as per my first post and drop AAS dose way down because that anti catabolic action has a pretty low cap so you are stressing your body for nothing.
I'll emphasize one more time to get your nutritional info from the proper, non crowd sources places. Other than to help visualize portion sizes I think one should give thought to whether that weigh things raw or cooked. Top example is meat, take my xlean ground beef shrinks about 30% when cooked but is it actually losing any noteworthy protein, fat or cals? I think not.

Your extra lean is shrinking 30%??

 

[Mfg Eng]

I'm thinking the lean muscle mass is not exactly much over homeostasis. 1lb of muscle takes 160cal per day to keep it there. Take a look at the personal logs, you will see the mass they have and are eating 3500cal while cutting..... Henderson Thorne said in front of me he needs at least 12,000cal per day on training days or he starts to shrink. He also said if you can grow like hell off 1gram per week of test you are in the wrong sport.

 

[gondar1]

Your extra lean is shrinking 30%??

Yessir. To further clarify that is from Walmart. I assume you think that is too much. Maybe it's not really xlean? I am possible cooking it too much I guess, pretty low heat, I do pull it of the heat just after any moisture in the pan disappears. Lately I have been buying what tastes and smells much better from a shop but I can't recall how much it weighs after cooking or even if I have weighed it.
Appreciate you asking, def caught my interest, I am all ears bud, from anyone else too.

 

[gondar1]

I'm thinking the lean muscle mass is not exactly much over homeostasis. 1lb of muscle takes 160cal per day to keep it there. Take a look at the personal logs, you will see the mass they have and are eating 3500cal while cutting..... Henderson Thorne said in front of me he needs at least 12,000cal per day on training days or he starts to shrink. He also said if you can grow like hell off 1gram per week of test you are in the wrong sport.

Interesting. May I ask the source and what is the equation behind that 160 cal number? Also I'm guessing a typo and you meant can't, not can, grow ?

 

[Sorbate]

Yessir. To further clarify that is from Walmart. I assume you think that is too much. Maybe it's not really xlean? I am possible cooking it too much I guess, pretty low heat, I do pull it of the heat just after any moisture in the pan disappears. Lately I have been buying what tastes and smells much better from a shop but I can't recall how much it weighs after cooking or even if I have weighed it.
Appreciate you asking, def caught my interest, I am all ears bud, from anyone else too.

Ah, tube meat. I know you are not buying tube meat, but its made form tube meat. It has a higher water content and more connective tissue.

Makes sense now

BTW All main grocery stores use tube meat in their grounds.

I'll do a cook test today for fun and let you know what we lost grinding whole muscle cuts.

UPDATE:

I did a cooking test and yeah 30% is what I got as well. Kinda suprised me, but I have never cooked ground beef without a binder (like for hamburger patties) and weighed it afterwards.

I know with hamburger patties we go for 25% shrink max. But I am using a toasted wheat crumb binder (less than 1%) and using 80% lean ground beef. I didn't expect the toasted wheat crumbs to retain so much.

Go figure I still learn things after 40 years, lol.

Guess tube meat isn't as bad as I thought for losses. I'll have to be nicer to it from now on, lol.

 

[Mfg Eng]

Interesting. May I ask the source and what is the equation behind that 160 cal number? Also I'm guessing a typo and you meant can't, not can, grow ?

Can start with my reference- Henderson Thorne. Check out medical reports. You will find a lot about this. 1lb of fat takes 2cal to keep it there for 1 day as well. Fat needs to eat. In the morbidly obese arteries and veins feed the fat nutrients..... as my ex-fiancé (a surgeon) said "fat needs to eat too"

Maybe you might find an old study I saw about AIDS patients receiving 300mg/d anadrol for 6mths and what the results where. All the goodies are there from bloods to body weight to diet.

Edit: Ah I see now my error....Please let me qualify- It takes 160cals per day to keep 1lb of extra muscle on the body. I forgot the extra word sorry.

 

[gondar1]

Ah, tube meat. I know you are not buying tube meat, but its made form tube meat. It has a higher water content and more connective tissue.

Makes sense now

BTW All main grocery stores use tube meat in their grounds.

I'll do a cook test today for fun and let you know what we lost grinding whole muscle cuts.

UPDATE:

I did a cooking test and yeah 30% is what I got as well. Kinda suprised me, but I have never cooked ground beef without a binder (like for hamburger patties) and weighed it afterwards.

I know with hamburger patties we go for 25% shrink max. But I am using a toasted wheat crumb binder (less than 1%) and using 80% lean ground beef. I didn't expect the toasted wheat crumbs to retain so much.

Go figure I still learn things after 40 years, lol.

Guess tube meat isn't as bad as I thought for losses. I'll have to be nicer to it from now on, lol.

Good stuff Sir!