.

I get it now.
By taking stains, a placebo effect lessens the risk of heart attack because the brain is convinced that there is no longer an issue.
Or does that only happen for drugs that arent issued by certified drug dealers?
Guess i am confused again.
 
Theres a big issue i find though these days with statin toxicity and high cholesterol levels and their correlation with longevity. Basicly pick a camp and ride it out but im on the statin and blood pressure medication side.


Not directed to you whatsoever I just needed a thread to reply to to be able to post this lol, not sure why we are all so scared of “ brain fog” from a statin but then decide to be unbothered about dementia from tren, taking research compounds with no long term studies and taking a gram of anabolics lol.

There is mounds of research on all these proper ancillaries, and for 95% of anabolic users they are going to do way more good than they will harm anyone. These drugs consistently outperform any natural supplement , for a fraction of the cost. Assuming you have healthcare and a doctor that’s not a dick you could even get them for free. No slander to supplementation as I think they have a place and are needed as well but taking proper pharmaceuticals such as ezetimibe or a statin to mitigate your lipids is going to be a much more affective approach than taking some fish oil.


Makes no sense to be unbothered by the fact that plaque is painting our arteries and 19nors are rotting our brain then freak the fuck out when statins gave a miniscule amount of people brain fog, where most of which was supposedly placebo.
Another question to ask yourself when it comes down to the general population that is going to be taking a statin, they are also consuming an absolute slop diet full of processed foods, fast foods containing heavy metals and who the fuck knows what else, how could we instantly blame a statin on their brain fog while they are consuming led lol
 
Not directed to you whatsoever I just needed a thread to reply to to be able to post this lol, not sure why we are all so scared of “ brain fog” from a statin but then decide to be unbothered about dementia from tren, taking research compounds with no long term studies and taking a gram of anabolics lol.

There is mounds of research on all these proper ancillaries, and for 95% of anabolic users they are going to do way more good than they will harm anyone. These drugs consistently outperform any natural supplement , for a fraction of the cost. Assuming you have healthcare and a doctor that’s not a dick you could even get them for free. No slander to supplementation as I think they have a place and are needed as well but taking proper pharmaceuticals such as ezetimibe or a statin to mitigate your lipids is going to be a much more affective approach than taking some fish oil.


Makes no sense to be unbothered by the fact that plaque is painting our arteries and 19nors are rotting our brain then freak the fuck out when statins gave a miniscule amount of people brain fog, where most of which was supposedly placebo.
Another question to ask yourself when it comes down to the general population that is going to be taking a statin, they are also consuming an absolute slop diet full of processed foods, fast foods containing heavy metals and who the fuck knows what else, how could we instantly blame a statin on their brain fog while they are consuming led lol
Im a for crestor ive read a lot of good stuff about it. My only concern is liver toxicity and coq10 depletion but I pretty much micro dose it so its not as big of an issue. I find it weird though that coq10 is so great for heart, vessels and cholesterol but statins deplete it. Sounds like a catch 22
 
This post 100%. Especially when we are in Canada and part of our medical system is based on when REAL statin intolerance is detected, and we have tests for this so anyone claiming it who cannot produce a test result is clearly lying, allow free access to pcsk 9 inhibitors....

I linked two modern articles for harvard and UBC. Co-q 10 is out and a new understanding is in. I was at uoft med school the last week where testing was taken place and a group of med students were prepping and going over how co-q 10 is not to be used in the capacity of muscle pain anymore. Dm me and ill happily link you to a proper sports med doc for all your steroid care and auxiliary needs covered by the government (he is a world multi record holding powerlifter) 😀
I remember when eggs were shown to be bad for you.

Lots of studies showing co enzymes limited effectiveness (like most supplements)

But I’ll keep taking mine, and will avoid statins
 
I remember when eggs were shown to be bad for you.

Lots of studies showing co enzymes limited effectiveness (like most supplements)

But I’ll keep taking mine, and will avoid statins
My doctor tried to put me on stains years ago. The more i looked into them, the easier it was to decline.
She was pretty mad that I challenged her opinion.
Seems that there are almost as many doctors, real ones, not wanna be internet “experts” that are against stains these days.
As with any medication these days it up to the individual to put in the time and research themselves.
 
I think what we usually forget is doctors basically think every medication is toxic amd hazardous hence why they always try to find the lowest effective dose. They know and tell their patients that theres always a risk and it comes down to whats more of a risk the condition your treating or the side effects of the treatment.
 
nah we’re all idiots for not taking every pharmaceutical under the sun to combat the side effect of every other pharmaceutical we’re taking, until we’re on blister packs with 40 meds in them at the age of 30. expect nothing less from someone taking 2 grams of tren to attempt to compete in men’s physique. mental health issues run strong in this one
 
nah we’re all idiots for not taking every pharmaceutical under the sun to combat the side effect of every other pharmaceutical we’re taking, until we’re on blister packs with 40 meds in them at the age of 30. expect nothing less from someone taking 2 grams of tren to attempt to compete in men’s physique. mental health issues run strong in this one
I think all the laughing faces means we are just wrong.
A bunch of science deniers, gonna kill grandma.
I can just see his face now reading our opinions.
Probably looks something like this…


1790377492318.jpeg
 
I gotta say I think theres room for both arguments fellas, as much as that makes me a fence sitter. Im also of the mindset that believing one thing that does not allign with someone elses does not necessarily make someone an idiot. Ive seen studies come and go over the last 30 years since my university days and what supported now at times is disputed tommorow. I would caution those who feel the need to shit on others for not believing what they believe. I myself am on a low dose of crestor, but at last blood work my ldl and hdl were in the best shape they have ever been. Lower than past tests even while still on crestor. So either fat loss, improved lifestyle and/or retatrutide have my bloodwork at a better place than its been in years. And thats after two months trt/cruise and a 4onth blast before that. With that being said my mindset with Peds and medication is using the least amount necessary to achieve the outcomes I want will generally be the wisest course.
 
My doctor tried to put me on stains years ago. The more i looked into them, the easier it was to decline.
She was pretty mad that I challenged her opinion.
Seems that there are almost as many doctors, real ones, not wanna be internet “experts” that are against stains these days.
As with any medication these days it up to the individual to put in the time and research themselves.
@fangedparabolan - I have no interest in arguing with you, I don't see the sense but why do you laugh at other opinions? Do you not think people have the right to make medical choices for themselves? Forums are for discussions and not to shit on each other for not agreeing. You must know your original posts would create controversy, albeit I read them but saw no sense in commenting. I don't touch tren and as such I have no business speaking like an expert - as I am not.

You have your beliefs, which is 100% your right, and if you are able to secure 20 medications from a doctor to do a test to mitigate harm, you have an excellent doctor as most would ask why do you want these 20 medications for issues you do not have. When you tell them it is because you want to push the absolute limits of a very harsh injectable, most doctors would not support this. They would be concerned with medical malpractice, regardless of the evidence and research you have done or provided them. Is it right or wrong for the doctor to prescribe/not prescribe for people who are abusing PED's. That is another topic of conversation. Most doctors would not even have the knowledge of the medications you mention.
I never exceed 300 mg of anything, but I am curious where that magic number and your shots at anyone who takes over 300 mg of anabolic steroids and does not follow your protocol. Essentially, none are and as such you are insulting the entire membership. I am curious where the 300 mg threshold came from. If you explained it and I missed it, my bad.

I am not taking a shot at you so if you read it that way - please read it again. I can see the messages you delete and calling people names such as Sorbate, coolrick, or Superbeast for their experiences/opinions means the general consensus is they disagree with you. I believe you put a lot of effort into research, posting info, and it is worth a read but that does not make it right for everyone or even remotely accessible for everyone.
The contradictions of 20 medications, plus all the PED's you take, you would need a clinical pharmacist to ensure no contradictions plus most clinical pharmacists are not used to anyone taking a non human medication meant to beef up cattle for slaughter. It is your choice to do so - no judgment.
You will get push back from members, but many are interested in your info provided including myself. If you find people who disagree with you offensive and your response is to take shots at them then forums may not be for you (IE: Sorbate just made a few comments/did not insult you/nor did Superbeast). If I posted something as controversial I would expect members to question me, disagree, state it is dangerous, etc. That is their opinion. These threads do not need to get personal because people disagree.
I have a strong interest in health / medical info so thanks for posting everything but you do not have to prove your point to everyone. It works for you and that is great. Others, will disagree.
 
FYI I am ok with the laughing emoji being used out of context as a way to be annoying.
It is a great way to have people stop having conversations with you. That is why I use it.

Kinda reminds me of giving someone the finger when you are driving.
 
Big energy change up from saying its for losers and that you used it against rick once because you were tired of him and wanted to avoid a fight but felt unsatisfied and thus dont use it *
Didn't fell like getting into it that much and why I deleted it right away. I am trying to become a better person, lol.

And your point is? You just trying to stir shit up?
 
I wouldn't reply to this nonsense but I see my name being mentioned quite a bit here so I'll bite.

You know, I often forget that this is a bodybuilding forum that probably features a few (or many) people with narcissistic personality disorder. OP seems more interested in compliance with his flawed ideology than being open minded, probably because his life hinges on validation from complete strangers.

Example:
My dms are full of trusted memebers who can attest to my personal sanity and willingness to have in depth discussions and even * shocked face * disagreements that are cordial

I find it amusing that he continues to paint himself as this open-minded scientist yet labels anyone that expresses skepticism as a troll or trying to insult him.

Zero evidence has been presented on how any of his "wonder drugs" work together mechanistically or synergistcally yet btw. Cherry picked studies in isolation don't cut it.

Funnily enough, I've had in-depth or even heated debates with all of the guys recently mentioned and yet none of us have simply written each other off as trolls.

So guys, apparently we're part of a clique that lets people have their own opinions while simultaneously allowing ourselves to stand our ground and do what works for us. What a strange concept eh?
 
@Taureau

Id like to inquire why a staff member is attempting to scold me and me alone for posting medically and scientifically correct opinions as of the current moments understanding of said topics and having productive and positive public and dm convos with many of the trusted members and even this staff member himself because I utalize an allowed emoji response to comments i think are worth a laugh. Others have done so at me and he has stated nothing.

The members he has listed have bombed my threads with jokes, insults, misinterpretions, misunderstandings, and even a thread where insults against me can be found.

Unlike these non-productive members I have been mature and responded by ignorning, deleting any insulting responses asap, and keeping my posts on point. Utilizing a laughing emoji is allowed as far as im concerned. I do not censor others and they are allowed to respond in my threads. I have blocked zero users and do not run to staff after seeing insults about my intelligence and mental health status.

My dms are full of trusted memebers who can attest to my personal sanity and willingness to have in depth discussions and even * shocked face * disagreements that are cordial

I have been told by many senior users here to simply ignore and not engage with rick, tren cheese, super, and their clique as they thenselves are simply unreasonable and have taken said advice to heart out of respect to the other members who come for productive discussions where disagreements can be had and not simply trolling because a coherent counterpoint cant be stated

I grew up on the forums and xbox live cod lobbies im aware of the nature of forums so i find it hilarious this staff member thinks im too soft while he and the clique cry about being ignored and emojis 😂 🤣 like victim's

Yes if you misread and misinterpret the information i provide and ask questions answered because you cannot be bothered to read on a forum just jerk off your pals im not going to engage with you @Goldenrod

I have formed phenomenal and deep friendships with members here along with the labs themselves.

Many appolgies @Taureau for bringing you into the most dumb and pointless discussion and wasting your time but this is an absolutely unfathomably gross staff member response devoid of the reality of the situation.

Reading things I would say staff member @Goldenrod has been very fair in his posts to you

My suggestion is read and follow his advice. What he says i back completely. He is staff for a reason. I trust him.
 
@Taureau

Id like to inquire why a staff member is attempting to scold me and me alone for posting medically and scientifically correct opinions as of the current moments understanding of said topics and having productive and positive public and dm convos with many of the trusted members and even this staff member himself because I utalize an allowed emoji response to comments i think are worth a laugh. Others have done so at me and he has stated nothing.

The members he has listed have bombed my threads with jokes, insults, misinterpretions, misunderstandings, and even a thread where insults against me can be found.

Unlike these non-productive members I have been mature and responded by ignorning, deleting any insulting responses asap, and keeping my posts on point. Utilizing a laughing emoji is allowed as far as im concerned. I do not censor others and they are allowed to respond in my threads. I have blocked zero users and do not run to staff after seeing insults about my intelligence and mental health status.

My dms are full of trusted memebers who can attest to my personal sanity and willingness to have in depth discussions and even * shocked face * disagreements that are cordial

I have been told by many senior users here to simply ignore and not engage with rick, tren cheese, super, and their clique as they thenselves are simply unreasonable and have taken said advice to heart out of respect to the other members who come for productive discussions where disagreements can be had and not simply trolling because a coherent counterpoint cant be stated

I grew up on the forums and xbox live cod lobbies im aware of the nature of forums so i find it hilarious this staff member thinks im too soft while he and the clique cry about being ignored and emojis 😂 🤣 like victim's

Yes if you misread and misinterpret the information i provide and ask questions answered because you cannot be bothered to read on a forum just jerk off your pals im not going to engage with you @Goldenrod

I have formed phenomenal and deep friendships with members here along with the labs themselves.

Many appolgies @Taureau for bringing you into the most dumb and pointless discussion and wasting your time but this is an absolutely unfathomably gross staff member response devoid of the reality of the situation.
Poor little fella. I wish I was there with you to give you a hug.
Sounds like you are in desperate need of one.
There are people that can help. If I remember correctly, 1-800-668-6868 is the Kids Help Phone. Maybe reach out.
 
Big energy change up from saying its for losers and that you used it against rick once because you were tired of him and wanted to avoid a fight but felt unsatisfied and thus dont use it *

I personally use it when after evidence is provided the other party just pulls an ostrich instead of leveling a valid counter argument and just hides behind their feelings because said person isnt one you can have a discussion with. Provide me systematic reviews and meta analysis or if your a coach stacks or client case studies ill happily engange respectfully.

Like what am i supposed to do you rejected harvard and UBC in favour of feelings and then bring up the egg example....which is the mark of the uneducated in nutrition and cholesterol/heart health "studies said eggs were bad"

Anyone educated in research methods would simply have looked into it and reached the consensus of the community proper: eggs are a neutral food and depend entirely on your surrounding dietary context and genetics. A MINORITY can't touch em at all. A minority can eat unlimited, and the vast majority can have around 1 a day given their dietary context and be fine.

Pro egg studies are mostly paid off by big egg

Eggs are bad tends to be population dependent i.e. americans eating SAD. Where the saturated fat content is already high and eggs tip it.

But given your shrugging off of the harvard and ubc data ofc i give you a laughing emoji because you won't change your opinion on eggs even if i provided an up to date meta analysis on the literature.

People don't like nuance. They want good or bad to justify their bad habbits or a prioi emotional beliefs
This post is good illustration of the point I was making earlier.

You characterize yourself as the evidence driven, nuanced, mature while dismissing people who disagree with you as emotional, uneducated, unreasonable, trolls, or hiding behind their feelings.

The irony is that these posts contains the kinds of reasoning you're criticizing in others.

You invoke Harvard, UBC, systematic reviews and meta analyses as authorities, while simultaneously making unsupported claims about industry funding and other people's motives.

None of that means you're wrong about the underlying science. It demonstrates that being knowledgeable about a subject doesn't make you immune to the same reasoning errors you're identifying in other people.

The confidence with which you make these judgments is considerably less well supported than the specific scientific claims you're making.
I think that's fundamentally why you're running into pushback... the evidence you've presented doesn't justify the level of confidence you're expressing.

As an intelligent guy, imagine you've just recently walked into a room of long term forum members who have earned their reputation and the respect of their peers through years of posts demonstrating a cogent and comprehensive understanding of a wide range of subjects, and their willingness and ability to engage respectfully with others.

You start speaking with great confidence, belittling valid concerns and expecting others to give you that same level of consideration and respect immediately because you post a collection of various scientific consensus studies on average populations that, in your mind, when summed together will support your untested hypothetical framework of harm reduction in otherwise healthy PED users.
When the studies you've posted aren't even about that cohort.
You're relying heavily on extrapolation of mechanisms of action that, in many cases, have failed to predict the actual clinical outcome.

You said earlier that you have an education in complex systems analysis. Yet from what you've posted, you're repeatedly demonstrating the very reductionism and a priori bias you're criticizing in others.

"People don't like nuance. They want good or bad to justify their bad habits or a priori emotional beliefs."

Kinda like trying to convince yourself that you can safely do a butt load of tren if you take a long stack of drugs and supplements?

There is a substantial body of evidence showing that as the number of medications (and potential expected and unexpected interactions) increases, the risks increase as well.
Individual compounds have characterized effects, but whether you can confidently predict the behaviour and risk of the entire combination? Not by simply adding those individual effects together.
So why don't you post the studies that demonstrate that you actually can, or how this isn't a concern in your approach with your stack?

I'm sure you must have read Thinking in Systems by Donella Meadows, and know the distinction between understanding individual elements and understanding the behaviour of the system as a whole.

Anyway, I am enjoying your posts of various studies on lesser known metabolic pathways.
Biochemistry has barely scratched the surface.
It's your epistemic positioning that I think could use some attention.

Cheers.
 
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Back to the stain drugs.
My doctor wanted me to take them because obviously my cholesterol is very high. This was quite a while ago.
I refused them. She was angry.
But, in my mind I decided they are not for me. I mean I could take them, but if I was concerned with my levels, maybe a first step would be to stop eating 12 whole eggs every fucking day. And maybe cut back on the daily piles of ground beef, and so on.
She did not question my diet, at all.
I see no point in adding drugs to counter an issue that is directly cause by what I am putting in my body. When I get to the point where I care, i will make diet changes first.
Seems obvious to me.
And let me save “that guy” some trouble and add this myself
🤣
 
Poor little fella. I wish I was there with you to give you a hug.
Sounds like you are in desperate need of one.
There are people that can help. If I remember correctly, 1-800-668-6868 is the Kids Help Phone. Maybe reach out.
He doesn't need that. He's battle hardened from all the 12 year olds in call of duty lobbies. Lmao.
 
Back to the stain drugs.
My doctor wanted me to take them because obviously my cholesterol is very high. This was quite a while ago.
I refused them. She was angry.
But, in my mind I decided they are not for me. I mean I could take them, but if I was concerned with my levels, maybe a first step would be to stop eating 12 whole eggs every fucking day. And maybe cut back on the daily piles of ground beef, and so on.
She did not question my diet, at all.
I see no point in adding drugs to counter an issue that is directly cause by what I am putting in my body. When I get to the point where I care, i will make diet changes first.
Seems obvious to me.
And let me save “that guy” some trouble and add this myself
🤣
This is one struggle I have with the modern medical system, at least in Alberta. Our perhaps it more a societal flaw in that so many are unwilling to do the work daily to eat decently and do at least the minimum amount of activity. Perhaps doctors go right to medication because they've lost faith that many of us will actually make lifestyle changes. Even with that in mind there should be a push from physicians to promote healthy lifestyle along with appropriate medication.
 
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