Nootropics knowledge anyone?

Heraclitus said:
Some great points in this thread, many often missed in nootropics forum.
Most of my experience mirrors @entropy, I've used all the same ones plus a couple others with mixed results.
Rather than talking about specific drugs, I approach the subject of nootropics from a general framework of healthy growth rather than one of repairing cognitive decline.

Most importantly, any nootropics intended for regular use to enhance cognitive functions such as memory, focus, or creativity MUST NOT cause significant harm over time.
If a substance carries substantial risks, such as dependency or adverse side effects, it aligns more closely with PEDS and are better suited for occasional, short-term use rather than daily incorporation.

For instance, L-Theanine, derived from green tea, promotes relaxation and sharpens focus without sedation and is considered safe for prolonged use. Bacopa Monnieri, an herbal supplement, enhances memory and mitigates stress with consistent administration. (Be wary of heavy metal contamination)
Citicoline increases acetylcholine production, supporting attention and memory with minimal downsides. Rhodiola Rosea bolsters resilience to mental fatigue and stress, also proving safe over time.

Conversely, Adderall markedly improves focus but poses risks of addiction and energy crashes. Modafinil enhances wakefulness and cognition, yet prolonged use may disrupt sleep patterns. Ritalin boosts attention effectively, though it can lead to tolerance and cardiovascular strain. Phenylpiracetam offers a stimulant-like cognitive lift, but its efficacy diminishes rapidly with tolerance.
Keep in mind that all substances can be categorized into various buckets, much like peds can.

Choline boosters like citicoline, are a huge bucket.

Calming agents, eg L-Theanine,

Stimulants, eg Adderall

BDNF eg lions mane

Brain blood flow improvement

Modulatory or adaptogenic, like Rhodiola that adjust brain function holistically.

Many/most are hybrids, nicotine for example is an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor as well as a stimulant.

Like bodybuilding. One would not consider anabolic steroids without first establishing a foundation of proper sleep, nutrition, and exercise. Similarly, cognitive enhancement requires these fundamentals.
Sleep is huge. it regulates neuroplasticity,
nutrition provides essential substrates for brain health, and exercise enhances cerebral blood flow.
Without this groundwork, nootropics or PEDs offer limited benefits and may merely mask underlying deficiencies.

Adderall may sustain alertness during sleep deprivation, but it cannot replicate the restorative effects of rest.
Likewise, Bacopa’s potential remains unrealized if the brain lacks critical nutrients like omega-3 fatty acids. A solid foundation is essential for meaningful enhancement.

Imo, the most important thing to do first though, is to find your baseline efficacy through subjective means,
because your perception is unreliable .

You can't go by feel. In this case the brain, is both the subject of modification and the evaluator, so introduces inherent perception bias.
By analogy a drunk who perceives themselves as witty and eloquent while everyone else can see a stumbling ass.

One might feel sharper after taking a nootropic, yet this could reflect placebo effects or fleeting stimulation rather than genuine improvement.
Objective measurement is thus indispensable, just as keeping a log and maintaining proper form is in bodybuilding.

The first step is to identify what you want to improve?
For me, Chess against the computer, allows me to monitor strategic thinking and memory through a quantifiable rating.
Some others are Dual N-Back which targets working memory and attention.

Lumosity provides exercises for speed, memory, and cognitive flexibility.

The Stroop Test evaluates attention and inhibition.

The Digit Span Test assesses short-term memory through recall of number sequences.

Newbie gains are real, you'll progress quickly and just doing the exercises/games will carryover into everyday life, again just like in bodybuilding. You want a stronger bench press/memory? Then exercise your memory. Simple.

once you hit your plateau and gains come slowly, you've found your baseline and can objectively determine whether cognitive performance improves, stabilizes, or declines.

People seek nootropics like NZT in the movie Limitless,
whereas the reality is you gotta put in the reps to get the gainz.
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I know L-Theanine is often taken with caffeine for a synergetic effect. If you've tried L-Theanine before, do you take it with caffeine? If so, what amounts did you take to get nootropic effects?
 
Have you tried DHEA? Many TRT clinics push it alongside TRT because of its cognitive benefits. I’ve read many studies though and say it’s inconclusive. I did not notice any benefit when I tried it, but then I don’t have any cognitive issues.

I took it for 2-3 years straight at one point. It absolutely lowers cortisol significantly. My BW proved that. I only stopped taking it because it seriously reduced my SHGB.
 
Heraclitus said:
Definitely avoid the TBI inducing styles.
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Years ago @Bagua gave me a mantra that's been stuck in my head for long time -"Higher consciousness through harder contact" . I have had more than a fair share of that in my life, lots of serious concussions mostly back in the days when we just sucked it up and got back in there cause we didn't know better or were too macho for our own good. Some long recoveries. I wish I had thought to mention that at the start of the thread, might have influenced some of the input. I do think it may have slightly lowered my cognitive level over the long term but I haven't had one in well over a decade now and been at a pretty stable level for a while.
 
Oldguyjiujitsu said:
Have you tried DHEA? Many TRT clinics push it alongside TRT because of its cognitive benefits. I’ve read many studies though and say it’s inconclusive. I did not notice any benefit when I tried it, but then I don’t have any cognitive issues.

I took it for 2-3 years straight at one point. It absolutely lowers cortisol significantly. My BW proved that. I only stopped taking it because it seriously reduced my SHGB.
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I kinda dismissed that one, actually partly because of what you have said about it but I never considered this aspect, it's on the list now thanks.
 
Jussik said:
I know L-Theanine is often taken with caffeine for a synergetic effect. If you've tried L-Theanine before, do you take it with caffeine? If so, what amounts did you take to get nootropic effects?
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Try it first with your regular caffeine intake.
This will help you assess the effects of the quantity of L-Theanine you’ve ingested.

Caffeine is something I try to really feel when I take it so I don’t take too much. There’s a sweet spot for me. Anything over ruins my day. I like to ride that wave with little sips throughout my day.

@gondar1 I totally understand what you mean by blanking out mid sentence. This actually happens to me when I’m fried off weed pens. That is if I smoked during the day. It was frustrating the shit out of me. I never consume before night time when my day is finally over. When I read what you posted, I truly felt your emotion rollercoaster. At least I knew my culprit and rectified the situation. Let’s get your brain in tip-top shape!!! YEAH BUDDDYYYY!!!

@Heraclitus thank you for sharing your knowledge. Everything you said is true. Great advice. I hope everyone can take it in.

@gondar1 here is what I tried from my friend. Felt a very subtle calm and focus. I just checked out the ingredients and the website, it seems pricey to me. Says serving size is 2 capsules but my friend made me take 4 caps of each. He said that works the best and it did.
https://brainmd.com/serotonin-mood-support
https://brainmd.com/tyrosine
 
gondar1 said:
Years ago @Bagua gave me a mantra that's been stuck in my head for long time -"Higher consciousness through harder contact" . I have had more than a fair share of that in my life, lots of serious concussions mostly back in the days when we just sucked it up and got back in there cause we didn't know better or were too macho for our own good. Some long recoveries. I wish I had thought to mention that at the start of the thread, might have influenced some of the input. I do think it may have slightly lowered my cognitive level over the long term but I haven't had one in well over a decade now and been at a pretty stable level for a while.
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Maybe consider going to a specialist for a full check up and see the state you’re in. You gotta blow shit out of proportion and act like you’re at a severe state of decline.

I’m only saying this cuz I’ve been so frustrated with our healthcare. You literally have to be dying for them to finally send you to specialists or for advanced imaging/testing.
 
Jussik said:
I know L-Theanine is often taken with caffeine for a synergetic effect. If you've tried L-Theanine before, do you take it with caffeine? If so, what amounts did you take to get nootropic effects?
Click to expand...
I never did.
Combined, L-theanine is supposed to take the jitters away from the caffeine, but I never had them and only wanted the unmediated stimulation effect from caffeine.
Theanine, I took for its anxiety reducing effects when I was taking performance examinations. I couldn't use anything sedating because I needed to stay sharp for the several hours the exams ran. No caffeine needed, as the adrenaline and high cortisol was stimulation enough!
 
entropy said:
@gondar1 I totally understand what you mean by blanking out mid sentence. This actually happens to me when I’m fried off weed pens. That is if I smoked during the day. It was frustrating the shit out of me. I never consume before night time when my day is finally over. When I read what you posted, I truly felt your emotion rollercoaster. At least I knew my culprit and rectified the situation. Let’s get your brain in tip-top shape!!! YEAH BUDDDYYYY!!!
Click to expand...
That's a a pretty good descrition of what it feels like actually, over indulgence but with absolutely aero zero of the perceived positives like relaxation or euphoria, just the dulled down thinking ability.

I recall seeing that stuff, at least the brand, I'll have a look thanks

edit: zero not aero damnit
 
Heraclitus said:
I never did.
Combined, L-theanine is supposed to take the jitters away from the caffeine, but I never had them and only wanted the unmediated stimulation effect from caffeine.
Theanine, I took for its anxiety reducing effects when I was taking performance examinations. I couldn't use anything sedating because I needed to stay sharp for the several hours the exams ran. No caffeine needed, as the adrenaline and high cortisol was stimulation enough!
Click to expand...
Laughing at the adrenaline and cortisol stimulation 🤣

Something I have had soooooo much of.

It even sobers you up instantly.
 
gondar1 said:
Years ago @Bagua gave me a mantra that's been stuck in my head for long time -"Higher consciousness through harder contact" . I have had more than a fair share of that in my life, lots of serious concussions mostly back in the days when we just sucked it up and got back in there cause we didn't know better or were too macho for our own good. Some long recoveries. I wish I had thought to mention that at the start of the thread, might have influenced some of the input. I do think it may have slightly lowered my cognitive level over the long term but I haven't had one in well over a decade now and been at a pretty stable level for a while.
Click to expand...

QEEG
Not a nootropic, not cheap, but may be covered by health insurance.

It has come a long way in the past 15years, and with computer modeling they are down to 0.5cm resolution and enough average Z-scores that a good analyst can find evidence of decades old concussions and various other deficits.

Once you're mapped, they can generate a neurofeedback profile that you can then use to retrain your area specific brainwaves to match "average" values.
This now includes deeper sub cortical regions as well.
It's still new enough that it can't be used for diagnosis, but the research shows immediate and profound effects for many conditions including otherwise intractable cases of PTSD, CPTSD, TBI and many other conditions. @Bagua you read up on this?

Even without any remarkable issues, the neurofeedback is like a meditation cheat code.
You can get there by meditation alone, but this can shave a decade or more off your practice.

Mapping runs around $500, then each session is ~150$.
10 sessions is enough to see if the results are worth continuing. If they are, another 10 to 20 sessions to consolidate the changes.

If you want to learn more about it, I'd recommend Sebern Fisher and Bessel Van der Kolks work.
 
entropy said:
Laughing at the adrenaline and cortisol stimulation 🤣

Something I have had soooooo much of.

It even sobers you up instantly.
Click to expand...
Hah, yes it does.
But adrenaline also makes you stupid.
It literally shuts down blood flow to the frontal lobes, preventing executive thought from slowing down sub cortical processing speed. A good idea when reaction time is paramount, escaping tigers, snakes etc.
Not so good when having to process reems of data.
In one of my first exams, peoples voices sounded like Charlie Brown's teacher, and my visual field was narrowed to less than 90 degrees. I tried a few things. Kava worked, but Theanine was better. By the end of the exams, I didn't need to take anything at all. Exposure therapy works too.
 
i was looking at the andrew huberman brain stack as i do shift work and i find it tough sometimes during a day shift to stay sharp.
this includes
Alpha GPC
L-Tyrosine
L-Phenylalanine
Rhodiola Rosea
Then obviously Glutamine, Creatine and Omega 3 I already take

Not exactly one concrete “nootropic” but allegedly these can help with alertness and decreasing perceived fatigue. Anyone have any input?
 
Heraclitus said:
QEEG
Not a nootropic, not cheap, but may be covered by health insurance.

It has come a long way in the past 15years, and with computer modeling they are down to 0.5cm resolution and enough average Z-scores that a good analyst can find evidence of decades old concussions and various other deficits.

Once you're mapped, they can generate a neurofeedback profile that you can then use to retrain your area specific brainwaves to match "average" values.
This now includes deeper sub cortical regions as well.
It's still new enough that it can't be used for diagnosis, but the research shows immediate and profound effects for many conditions including otherwise intractable cases of PTSD, CPTSD, TBI and many other conditions. @Bagua you read up on this?

Even without any remarkable issues, the neurofeedback is like a meditation cheat code.
You can get there by meditation alone, but this can shave a decade or more off your practice.

Mapping runs around $500, then each session is ~150$.
10 sessions is enough to see if the results are worth continuing. If they are, another 10 to 20 sessions to consolidate the changes.

If you want to learn more about it, I'd recommend Sebern Fisher and Bessel Van der Kolks work.
Click to expand...
Mainly PTSD and mainly in kids, which has different symptoms than adult PTSD. Kids shouldn't be hurt badly enough to have PTSD. TBI: I read what comes across my desk from my psych emails, but it has become a significant subject only in the last few years. Looking back, I knew many boxers were displaying early signs. This was in the seventies and eighties, and it was punch drunk. CPTSD: Not a lot was written about it back when I was working, so I don't have a solid knowledge base. PTSD I am confident in (or at least I think I am) because I have had to write papers on the subject and case notes on the kids. I have never written anything on TBI or CPTSD, which I feel limits my knowledge. In my opinion, you only gain deep or workable expertise on a topic when you write about it. That's why we do dissertations.
Damn, that was a long paper. Now, back to Black Belt.
 
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