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MrG

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Hey CBers

I've got a question for everyone as I am torn what to do here. I've been on TRT for about 5 months. Here's how that became to be...

In May of this year I had some routine bloodwork done as I was feeling like absolute garbage every day. Issues with energy, focus, sexual function, sleep, etc. I saw my family MD for bloodwork. My test came back at 6.5 and free T at 175. He referred me to a local endocrinologist. A few months went by and I couldn't wait anymore so I got in contact with Science and Humans. I had my bloodwork taken again and my test was 10.9 and free T 240. When I spoke with the RN from S&H she said I would benefit from TRT given my symptoms/complaints. I was started on test-c 100mg weekly divided 50/50 every 3.5 days. Since starting I have felt great except for around the 3 month mark for my check in. Turns out my E2 was 220 and I was told to take 0.25 arimidex anastrazole the day after my shot. I instantly felt better. It's been smooth sailing since then.

Fast forward to last week when I finally saw the endocrinologist. She takes a look at my pre trt bloodwork from Science and Humans and says my test levels were "normal" and that I shouldn't have been prescribed TRT despite me feeling like shit with those values. At my 3 month check in with S&H my test was at 26.6 and free T at 803. She stated that is "too high" and wants me to cut my dose down to 50mg weekly with only 1 shot and retest my levels in 8 weeks. She also was very concerned I was taking arimidex.

I am fucking confused now what to do. 50mg sounds low to me and being on test-c wouldn't 1 shot per week cause some major hormonal fluctuations? I felt like absolute dog shit for so long the last thing I want to do is to revert back to that state.

What's your take on this? Is she a fucking quack? Have you had a similar experience with endos in Ontario? She did say to me that she would understand being hesitant to come off TRT at this point but she also didn't mention any kind of PCT to do so if she truly thinks I didn't need the TRT in the first place.

I may ask S&H for some HCG to take while in limbo to keep my nads working as I have noticed they have shunk up a bit. I am likely fully shut down at this point.

Need your experiences and opinions to help sort out what the hell I'm going to do at this point!

Thanks!
 
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You already know what you want to do, so I'll help to confirm it.

Stick with S&H. It prescription either way and this way you don't have to jump thru a ton of hoops for the doctor.

I find it funny that they will easily prescribe antidepressants which are far more addictive and harmful to your body, but keep test levels so low that you feel borderline like crap.

These same doctors go home and likely drink every night or smoke weed, but test is bad, lol.

I look at it this way, your body, and the level of test you are at will likely never cause any long term damaging effects (well no more than drinking a couple every day at worst case, and likely not even that).

Just donate blood every 3 months and watch your blood pressure and stick with S&H.

There is nothing wrong with adex. I have been using it on and of for a decade. My blood work always comes back perfect.
 
Thanks Sorbate. I guess I am just looking for confirmation I'm doing what's right for myself. These endos make low level test doses sound like they are so risky to prescribe yet you are correct about the over prescription of other meds that they don't even bat an eye at. Our health care system is effed.

The convo I had with her sent me for a loop mentally overthinking the whole thing. God damn.
 
MrG said:
Thanks Sorbate. I guess I am just looking for confirmation I'm doing what's right for myself. These endos make low level test doses sound like they are so risky to prescribe yet you are correct about the over prescription of other meds that they don't even bat an eye at. Our health care system is effed.

The convo I had with her sent me for a loop mentally overthinking the whole thing. God damn.
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Stick with your gut. Even if taking more test killed me earlier, but I felt great until I died, vs living longer and in agony, guess which one I'd pick, lol.

I am more about quality of life.
 
If you fo continue with the 100mg a week and arimidex you'll probably feel a lot better but arimidex can be hard on cholesterol so hopefully the clinic will do a thorough blood panel on you at least every 6 months to a year. Although 100mg a week is the lowest lose I've ever heard of that's still beneficial so I'm surprised you need arimidex with it but hey everyone's different. Feeling good is pretty much the main thing, the rest is details.
 
I'm sorry if you have posted this elsewhere and I missed it, but what's the bodyfat situation? I was a terrible (high) aromatizer until I got pretty lean.
 
Bigbear said:
If you fo continue with the 100mg a week and arimidex you'll probably feel a lot better but arimidex can be hard on cholesterol so hopefully the clinic will do a thorough blood panel on you at least every 6 months to a year. Although 100mg a week is the lowest lose I've ever heard of that's still beneficial so I'm surprised you need arimidex with it but hey everyone's different. Feeling good is pretty much the main thing, the rest is details.
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I think maybe if you were using a fair bit of Adex and reducing your estrogen fairly low it would impact cholestrol, but I havn’t found that it impacts mine at all, but I only use when needed. So every couple of weeks.
 
Pre trt my e2 was 55, roughly a 1:4 ratio with my free test. That ratio was the same on 100mg but with my free T at 800. Guess I'm just lucky to aromatize a lot 🙃

I have bloods every 3 months through S&H and so far they have included lipids on both. I expect they will continue to monitor it too.

To be honest I was really hopeful for this endo to take me on so I could avoid the $200 every 3 months and also potentially have bloodwork every 6 months or more once things have been established as stable. I'd love to do an actual cycle even if that's just bumping test to 250-350mg weekly but I really don't want to fuck around within a 3 month window and get dropped as a patient. Unfortunate but I'm also late 30s so probably better for my health to keep things low and slow.
 
Sorbate said:
You already know what you want to do, so I'll help to confirm it.

Stick with S&H. It prescription either way and this way you don't have to jump thru a ton of hoops for the doctor.

I find it funny that they will easily prescribe antidepressants which are far more addictive and harmful to your body, but keep test levels so low that you feel borderline like crap.

These same doctors go home and likely drink every night or smoke weed, but test is bad, lol.

I look at it this way, your body, and the level of test you are at will likely never cause any long term damaging effects (well no more than drinking a couple every day at worst case, and likely not even that).

Just donate blood every 3 months and watch your blood pressure and stick with S&H.

There is nothing wrong with adex. I have been using it on and of for a decade. My blood work always comes back perfect.
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I gotta agree with Sorbs here. Keep working with S&H. They have effectively improved your quality of life. I don’t see a reason to step away from that
 
this is simple.

Yes your natural test levels are too low

On 100mg test your free test shot up to 800 only when you went on adex. Analysis: You are on too much adex

At e2 of 220…what is your body fat? Likely too high. If yes i would address that first.

If not don’t go to 50mg test…the adex impact on E2 and free test is the issue, not the amount of test. Try pinning every other day 25-28mg test with no adex. On TRT you should not have to rely on an AI if body fat and pinning schedule are optimized.

If you do require an AI, I would cut the dosage. That is a ridiculous high amount to go with 100 mg test if you cut it in half it’ll drop it to 12.5, I would even break it in a quarter down to 6.25 and only take it every 10 days or when you feel symptoms come on. Many years ago when I went to a private clinic, their formula was to put everybody on an AI. I took 6.25 once a week on 100 mg and after 10 weeks, my oestrogen was completely crashed. Worst I ever felt.

Skip the Endo and stay with a private clinic.
 
Your numbers are great for TRT she is a quack. The AI is questionable my TRT clinic has me on it and my E2 is like 30 when I flowed their protocol and didn't feel great so I modified the dose myself.
 
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Ha, I am tool. I don't even have the drugs right. I am on 0.25mg post injection day so 0.5mg weekly of ANASTRAZOLE. I'm a mess fellas.

@Oldguyjiujitsu that bloodwork with E2 at 220 and free T 803 was before I started taking the anastrazole. I'm curious to see on my next bloodwork what my E2 is at now.

I honestly don't think bodyfat is this issue here. I know I'm a littler thicker than I was in the summer but not by a lot. This photo was a couple months ago around the time of my reassessment and 220 e2
 

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On my way out and may comment again late but she sounds very typical of many shit endos. A- lots of them know lots about diabetes and maybe something about thyroid and fuck all about male hormones. B- Woman seem worse about mens stuff
I've posted a few outrageous stories here about the supposed best 3 endos in my province being idiots.
My heart hurts when I hear guys say "yaa! imma be saved I just got referred to an endo!" Dude I think you got about a 20% chance .
If money is the issue get urself educated, dump them both (endo and clinic) and get reg bloods through your GP
 
MrG said:
Ha, I am tool. I don't even have the drugs right. I am on 0.25mg post injection day so 0.5mg weekly of ANASTRAZOLE. I'm a mess fellas.

@Oldguyjiujitsu that bloodwork with E2 at 220 and free T 803 was before I started taking the anastrazole. I'm curious to see on my next bloodwork what my E2 is at now.

I honestly don't think bodyfat is this issue here. I know I'm a littler thicker than I was in the summer but not by a lot. This photo was a couple months ago around the time of my reassessment and 220 e2
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haha ur pic popped up while I was typing, dude yer gonna be fine if you can get yer head wrapped around this stuff. Read my last line again, barring anything crazy happening that's the way I'd go. If shit hits the fan maybe you'll have to go back to some outside help.
GP OR naturopath, private lab etc for bloods
 
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MrG said:
Ha, I am tool. I don't even have the drugs right. I am on 0.25mg post injection day so 0.5mg weekly of ANASTRAZOLE. I'm a mess fellas.

@Oldguyjiujitsu that bloodwork with E2 at 220 and free T 803 was before I started taking the anastrazole. I'm curious to see on my next bloodwork what my E2 is at now.

I honestly don't think bodyfat is this issue here. I know I'm a littler thicker than I was in the summer but not by a lot. This photo was a couple months ago around the time of my reassessment and 220 e2
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Lol no body fat is not an issue for you. I was just checking all the boxes.

800 is a great number for 100mg…depending when you pinned versus did BW.

E2 tests are very in accurate. You need to do a bunch and then get an average. That said there’s a lot of new theories that you just let your body find its own natural E2 level and if you’re not having high blood pressure, water retention, or Gyno issues just leave it alone. I like my E2 a little higher. Lower that 80 pmol i feel like garbage. 95-105 range is better for my mood, heart, libido and joints.

I would still try pinning every other day and if you still feel you need an AI take a quarter tab every 10 days.

Instead of an AI, you could take DHEA. For me reduces my SHGB overtime so I converted very little and free test skyrocketed. You need to take lile 25mg for 3-4 months minimum to get the E2 impact.

I have tried every procol possible over the past 12 years of prescription TRT. You have to be your own advocate and know what numbers make you feel the best. But your bodies natural T/E ratio should be the goal for most.
 
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Really appreciate all the insight here. I respect all of you 100x more than that endo fucking with me!

Going to stick to what I'm doing and see where my e2 is at on my next bloodwork and go from there. I'd love to drop the anastrazole eventually so I will experiment with more frequent pins and dhea once I know the effects of 0.25mg biweekly. I also wouldn't mind trying to incorporate HCG to keep the nads full but from what I understand that would very likely push my e2 even higher so one thing at a time.

I definitely felt a little watery and moody at 220 e2 but sexually still functioning well. No gyno / hot nips either. I actually didn't even recognize the symptoms until I spoke with the RN and she pointed it out on the bloodwork. Made a lot of sense after she explained it to me. This is definitely a learning process.
 
MrG said:
Really appreciate all the insight here. I respect all of you 100x more than that endo fucking with me!

Going to stick to what I'm doing and see where my e2 is at on my next bloodwork and go from there. I'd love to drop the anastrazole eventually so I will experiment with more frequent pins and dhea once I know the effects of 0.25mg biweekly. I also wouldn't mind trying to incorporate HCG to keep the nads full but from what I understand that would very likely push my e2 even higher so one thing at a time.

I definitely felt a little watery and moody at 220 e2 but sexually still functioning well. No gyno / hot nips either. I actually didn't even recognize the symptoms until I spoke with the RN and she pointed it out on the bloodwork. Made a lot of sense after she explained it to me. This is definitely a learning process.
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Once you notice the symptoms then you just take adex when needed. That is what I do. I do not know why, but sometimes I am good for a month, sometimes I need some once a week.
 
Sorbate said:
Once you notice the symptoms then you just take adex when needed. That is what I do. I do not know why, but sometimes I am good for a month, sometimes I need some once a week.
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What's it feel like to be too low on e2? Just as easy to notice in your experience?
 
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