Is it fatty liver disease?
Tudca and Nac.
- Thread starter Englishmustard
- Start date
Is it fatty liver disease?
I recently tried orals for the first time in a long time. At first, I ran Superdrol w/o Tudca and couldn't get more than 4 days in. The second time i ran it, I ran 1000mg of Tudca alongside it and got in 3 weeks (I think) no problem.
For me, it had a massive effect. If I ever run orals again, I'm def running Tudca with it.
For me, it had a massive effect. If I ever run orals again, I'm def running Tudca with it.
Same here brother and I also run NAC
I also now take orals with food and I think that has also helped with the stomach issues
Yup! I also run 1500-2000mg/day of NAC with the Tudca
I run Tudca with orals as well. I used to use Liv52 because there are quite a few legit medical studies that verify its effectiveness. Canada customs snagged about 30 bottles of Liv52 because I don't have the proper commercial licence to import that much. Its a recent law or regulation that you can only bring in 60 or 90 days worth for personal use. Always about getting their cut through licensing fees. Gggrrrrr
What was this “massive effect”? I have done many cycles with heavy orals and tried with and without liver supplements, my blood tests were in the normal range, it didn’t make any noticeable difference for me. I’m curious to what you noticed on vs off
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I didn't do any bloodwork, so I can't answer your question from an evidence-based angle, only from an experiential point of view.
Without the Tudca I was only able to go 3 days before I hit a wall of absolute fatigue (my liver's not the greatest, and I probably shouldn't be doing orals at all
- hence the reason I quit running them for so long).
When I ran the Tudca, I was able to go 3 weeks without bottoming out. After 3 weeks, when I finally stopped running the Superdrol, i was only just starting to feel the effects on my liver - but I never got to that stage where I felt kicked to the curb.
In both cases (with and without the Tudca) I was running NAC, Milk Thistle, and 6000mg of fish oil. The only difference was the Tudca. Not to mention that while running the Tudca, I was even able to run the Superdol at a higher daily dosage and still not feel the sides.
So for me, extending it from 3 days to 3 weeks (while at the same time not bottoming out) - for me that was a massive difference.
Hope that answers your question, smashedd.
Without the Tudca I was only able to go 3 days before I hit a wall of absolute fatigue (my liver's not the greatest, and I probably shouldn't be doing orals at all
- hence the reason I quit running them for so long). When I ran the Tudca, I was able to go 3 weeks without bottoming out. After 3 weeks, when I finally stopped running the Superdrol, i was only just starting to feel the effects on my liver - but I never got to that stage where I felt kicked to the curb.
In both cases (with and without the Tudca) I was running NAC, Milk Thistle, and 6000mg of fish oil. The only difference was the Tudca. Not to mention that while running the Tudca, I was even able to run the Superdol at a higher daily dosage and still not feel the sides.
So for me, extending it from 3 days to 3 weeks (while at the same time not bottoming out) - for me that was a massive difference.
Hope that answers your question, smashedd.
I didn't do any bloodwork, so I can't answer your question from an evidence-based angle, only from an experiential point of view.
Without the Tudca I was only able to go 3 days before I hit a wall of absolute fatigue (my liver's not the greatest, and I probably shouldn't be doing orals at all
When I ran the Tudca, I was able to go 3 weeks without bottoming out. After 3 weeks, when I finally stopped running the Superdrol, i was only just starting to feel the effects on my liver - but I never got to that stage where I felt kicked to the curb.
In both cases (with and without the Tudca) I was running NAC, Milk Thistle, and 6000mg of fish oil. The only difference was the Tudca. Not to mention that while running the Tudca, I was even able to run the Superdol at a higher daily dosage and still not feel the sides.
So for me, extending it from 3 days to 3 weeks (while at the same time not bottoming out) - for me that was a massive difference.
Hope that answers your question, smashedd.
Makes sense, I am the same way with Nor 19’s.. need to run caber otherwise 3 weeks in and I feel like a train ran me over
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I didn't do any bloodwork, so I can't answer your question from an evidence-based angle, only from an experiential point of view.
Without the Tudca I was only able to go 3 days before I hit a wall of absolute fatigue (my liver's not the greatest, and I probably shouldn't be doing orals at all
When I ran the Tudca, I was able to go 3 weeks without bottoming out. After 3 weeks, when I finally stopped running the Superdrol, i was only just starting to feel the effects on my liver - but I never got to that stage where I felt kicked to the curb.
In both cases (with and without the Tudca) I was running NAC, Milk Thistle, and 6000mg of fish oil. The only difference was the Tudca. Not to mention that while running the Tudca, I was even able to run the Superdol at a higher daily dosage and still not feel the sides.
So for me, extending it from 3 days to 3 weeks (while at the same time not bottoming out) - for me that was a massive difference.
Hope that answers your question, smashedd.
Makes sense, I am the same way with Nor 19’s.. need to run caber otherwise 3 weeks in and I feel like a train ran me over
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Yeah I agree on what sorbate said with it being blown out of proportion. And as some have said the liver is an amazing self healing/regenerating organ. But yeah I’d still run Tudca if I was going crazy with orals. But Tylenol has been known to be brutal on the liver and no ones running tudca then lol. A small oral run I wouldn’t be concerned. Man, I knew a guy who’s cancer spread to his liver. The doctors gave no shits about that and basically told him that they want to get the source first and that they don’t worry about the liver as how regenerating it is. They’ll still blast it but it’s not on the top of their list.
Dorian Yates said it well...Take a bottle of d bol and you will live however take a bottle of Tylenol,aspirin ect rip.
Injectable Glutathione 250mg per week with orals & NAC, but I wonder if it would be better to allow to see what my body is doing rather than masking the issues, come off & then health phase NAC with Glutathione, Ive heard this from Broderick Chavez on a podcast. Liposomal Glutathione is supposed to be 80-90% bioavailable, still looking into that as well.
Back on protecting the liver- Liv52 and Himalaya Livercare are essentially the same product and have studies showing they work. There are a ton of options, but one that never did anything for me was Tudca/Udca. Yes, it is popular and I hear people say it is the go to, but I found one study for something that is supposed to be best that indicated it protected the liver from a toxic substance. If anyone has other studies showing it was in double blind placebo studies for protecting against acetaminophen or a liver toxic product - please post it.
1. What works for certain - NAC (increases glutathione and decreases inflammation). Oral and IV - many countried still use mega doses of oral NAC from liver failure due to acetaminophen overdose.
2 SAMe - did as well as NAC in double blind studies, but has significantly more benefits (don't take if on anti-depressants without talking to your doctor). My favourite and most expensive.
3.Regular raw super cheap ginger - eat it raw twice a day and use a chunk half the size of your thumb pending you have big hands. Look it up - lots of double blind placebo studies providing it reduces inflammation and prevents damage from products that would otherwise ravage your liver.
4. Melatonin - 10 mg minimum a night minimum, beat NAC and high dose vit E in double blind placebo studies to save livers that would otherwise fail from acetaminophen dose and at a fraction of the dose. I still don't know why hospitals don't use this. Can you take more - sure, but 10 mg dual action gives your body 8 hours of additional melatonin over night.
5. Milk thistle still has it's place although it is not as sexy as it was 10-15 years ago. Enough scientific evidence to show if you can get your hands on quality milk thistle, it is cheap and effective.
6. Curcumin with black pepper corns are great for inflammation.
7. Glutathione - the mother of all hormones is a powerful antioxidant, but do not waste a penny on oral. Injectable is much better, but the best is if your local Naturopath or health clinic offers glutathione IV's over a period of hours.
8. One products for injuries has shown to decrease my liver enzymes and 'may have' healed my fatty liver I had for year (from mono - not from injectable TRT). BPC-157, during my healing years with my fatty liver and getting ultrasounds every 6 months / then 1 per year to see what worked and the doctor wanted to ensure it was not going end in steatohepatitits. Liver enzyme tests every few months with a gastroenterogist. My liver enzymes were good when I started treating it with BPC157 except my GGT was always high, but nothing too disconcerting. Every time I used BPC157- my liver enzymes were lower, including my GGT which reduced to low normal. There was no guessing as I changed nothing else.
Keep in mind most livers are damaged when your bodies' glutathione is depleted and you have inflammation. PED's, especially particular orals and a few injectables are liver toxic, and you would be wise to take action to protect your liver before you end up with fatty liver, cirrhosis, or worse. Liver enzyme tests are great, but everyone who abuses PED's (not just TRT), should have an ultrasound of their liver as once it goes - you can get a transplant if you are lucky, or just hope it heals by itself which it may.
These are just a few of the ones that helped, but there are tons more used in double blind studies successfully. Another option is don't use liver toxic harsh compounds like superdrol and all C-17a alkylated orals.
I would pick one or two and see if they help, I would not throw the kitchen sink at it as one will work for you and the same does not help me.
1. What works for certain - NAC (increases glutathione and decreases inflammation). Oral and IV - many countried still use mega doses of oral NAC from liver failure due to acetaminophen overdose.
2 SAMe - did as well as NAC in double blind studies, but has significantly more benefits (don't take if on anti-depressants without talking to your doctor). My favourite and most expensive.
3.Regular raw super cheap ginger - eat it raw twice a day and use a chunk half the size of your thumb pending you have big hands. Look it up - lots of double blind placebo studies providing it reduces inflammation and prevents damage from products that would otherwise ravage your liver.
4. Melatonin - 10 mg minimum a night minimum, beat NAC and high dose vit E in double blind placebo studies to save livers that would otherwise fail from acetaminophen dose and at a fraction of the dose. I still don't know why hospitals don't use this. Can you take more - sure, but 10 mg dual action gives your body 8 hours of additional melatonin over night.
5. Milk thistle still has it's place although it is not as sexy as it was 10-15 years ago. Enough scientific evidence to show if you can get your hands on quality milk thistle, it is cheap and effective.
6. Curcumin with black pepper corns are great for inflammation.
7. Glutathione - the mother of all hormones is a powerful antioxidant, but do not waste a penny on oral. Injectable is much better, but the best is if your local Naturopath or health clinic offers glutathione IV's over a period of hours.
8. One products for injuries has shown to decrease my liver enzymes and 'may have' healed my fatty liver I had for year (from mono - not from injectable TRT). BPC-157, during my healing years with my fatty liver and getting ultrasounds every 6 months / then 1 per year to see what worked and the doctor wanted to ensure it was not going end in steatohepatitits. Liver enzyme tests every few months with a gastroenterogist. My liver enzymes were good when I started treating it with BPC157 except my GGT was always high, but nothing too disconcerting. Every time I used BPC157- my liver enzymes were lower, including my GGT which reduced to low normal. There was no guessing as I changed nothing else.
Keep in mind most livers are damaged when your bodies' glutathione is depleted and you have inflammation. PED's, especially particular orals and a few injectables are liver toxic, and you would be wise to take action to protect your liver before you end up with fatty liver, cirrhosis, or worse. Liver enzyme tests are great, but everyone who abuses PED's (not just TRT), should have an ultrasound of their liver as once it goes - you can get a transplant if you are lucky, or just hope it heals by itself which it may.
These are just a few of the ones that helped, but there are tons more used in double blind studies successfully. Another option is don't use liver toxic harsh compounds like superdrol and all C-17a alkylated orals.
I would pick one or two and see if they help, I would not throw the kitchen sink at it as one will work for you and the same does not help me.
Hey @kickoverload - are you suggesting do not take anything and take toxic compounds (to the liver) to see how it impacts you and if it does, then react? You are not masking the issue, you are providing products that should help protect your organs. It isn't fooling blood tests, the hope is your gluathione stays high and your inflammation is controlled.
A 'Canadian Guru' and coach to the stars was on a podcast and maybe he has PED and training experience, but his expertise in safety is verging on idiotic. He clealy stated he tells his clients not to take anything during the cycle (when you need it most) and use your products after. His only recommendation was milk thistle for your liver. The same thought process could be applied to cancer - lets abuse ourselves and then treat it, or eat, exercise, drink coffee as it is an excellent liver protecant and significantly reduces the odds of getting multiple cancers, don't smoke/drink to excess, etc. and remove the factors that we know can put you at higher risk. Those comments are not directed at you, but I 100% disagree. Take what you can to protect yourself during and after if you are going to use high dose / organ damaging compounds. Listen to @BanditNOLIMIT 's video and he lists all his supplements. Any coach who does not include this as part of their program for you - I would run from, but that is just my opinion.
This was not arguing with you, I may have misunderstood your statement.