Thinking of coming off TRT. A couple questions

[resilient1]

The most important symptom for a primary diagnosis is being symptomatic, which would be resolved using TRT. If you've played around with doses for 8 years without finding a good protocol, then you likely aren't primary. There's more to androgen signalling than serum concentration. It's possible you have more AR activity/density and are supposed to have lower serum levels, and this possibility becomes much more likely when 8 years of trial and error doesn't give symptom relief.

What do you mean by AR activity/density at lower serum levels? I'm not saying that I don't have symptom relief, b/c I have energy, strength, a solid build, but my libido has been terribly unreliable, and my ability to get and maintain an erection has been frustrating to say the least. Now, one thing I've noticed is that I don't seem to get as pronounced high E2 symptoms as I did earlier on. They are more subtle, but no less problematic. I'm giving a shot to once a week, and using adex instead of asin. I've actually had some positive signs so far, and hopeful that this will pan out better than those in the past. I also believe that aromasin is too powerful to be used at lower doses reliably, which is also why I'm giving this protocol and ai combo a shot. If it works 7/10 then I will be satisfied.
For the record, I was on 52e3.5d for about 8 months and it worked very well, until it didn't, and 50e3, but I had more sides and far less reliable erections. I would go low from all of an 1/8 of asin on that protocol.
The past few months have been miserable, and a huge contributor to the demise of a relationship. When you're unable to perform most times you see one another you stop wanting to try. It's very difficult to maintain attraction and intimacy when you lack sexual drive.

 

[SeeMac]

What do you mean by AR activity/density at lower serum levels? I'm not saying that I don't have symptom relief, b/c I have energy, strength, a solid build, but my libido has been terribly unreliable, and my ability to get and maintain an erection has been frustrating to say the least. Now, one thing I've noticed is that I don't seem to get as pronounced high E2 symptoms as I did earlier on. They are more subtle, but no less problematic. I'm giving a shot to once a week, and using adex instead of asin. I've actually had some positive signs so far, and hopeful that this will pan out better than those in the past. I also believe that aromasin is too powerful to be used at lower doses reliably, which is also why I'm giving this protocol and ai combo a shot. If it works 7/10 then I will be satisfied.
For the record, I was on 52e3.5d for about 8 months and it worked very well, until it didn't, and 50e3, but I had more sides and far less reliable erections. I would go low from all of an 1/8 of asin on that protocol.
The past few months have been miserable, and a huge contributor to the demise of a relationship. When you're unable to perform most times you see one another you stop wanting to try. It's very difficult to maintain attraction and intimacy when you lack sexual drive.

AR density and gene expression of the AR varies wildly among individuals. Someone with more AR receptors might only "need" 250 ng/dl TT, but a blood test would flag that as low.

I follow a few of the forums related to TRT, and am pretty convinced that a lot of guys are in a constant nocebo/placebo rollercoaster related to their treatment. Obviously there are individual differences, but if you feel your QOL of life is being affected by a lack of T, and you raise your T without improvements in QOL, then your T probably wasn't the issue. You seem the same thing in the biohacking sphere. Guys convinced that one more change to their protocol will make them supermen. Lots of things can impact libido, mood, etc and if 8 years of tinkering with a single hormone didn't help, a betting man would wager that that hormone wasn't to blame.

 

[resilient1]

AR density and gene expression of the AR varies wildly among individuals. Someone with more AR receptors might only "need" 250 ng/dl TT, but a blood test would flag that as low.

I follow a few of the forums related to TRT, and am pretty convinced that a lot of guys are in a constant nocebo/placebo rollercoaster related to their treatment. Obviously there are individual differences, but if you feel your QOL of life is being affected by a lack of T, and you raise your T without improvements in QOL, then your T probably wasn't the issue. You seem the same thing in the biohacking sphere. Guys convinced that one more change to their protocol will make them supermen. Lots of things can impact libido, mood, etc and if 8 years of tinkering with a single hormone didn't help, a betting man would wager that that hormone wasn't to blame.

I follow what you are saying, which may be the case as I have always responded far better to a dose compared to a friend. The problem was that I was having libido, motivation, and energy issues prior to trt, which were resolved, however, libido has been the one thing that has not been that good for a while now.
That said, I've had a good libido on occasions over the past year, but recently it has not been great at all. I suspect that I may need to lower my dose and ride it out until I adjust, but right now I will give this its due. The other concern is that for the first couple years my libido was pretty solid, but then I tried different protocols with marginal success.
Thanks for the info. I will be closely monitoring my progress and will take this into consideration should I find that this protocol fails to satisfy.

 

[Sorbate]

I follow what you are saying, which may be the case as I have always responded far better to a dose compared to a friend. The problem was that I was having libido, motivation, and energy issues prior to trt, which were resolved, however, libido has been the one thing that has not been that good for a while now.
That said, I've had a good libido on occasions over the past year, but recently it has not been great at all. I suspect that I may need to lower my dose and ride it out until I adjust, but right now I will give this its due. The other concern is that for the first couple years my libido was pretty solid, but then I tried different protocols with marginal success.
Thanks for the info. I will be closely monitoring my progress and will take this into consideration should I find that this protocol fails to satisfy.

Take 100 mg of test with 200 mg of primo and I bet your issues will be solved

 

[Bigbear]

What do you mean by AR activity/density at lower serum levels? I'm not saying that I don't have symptom relief, b/c I have energy, strength, a solid build, but my libido has been terribly unreliable, and my ability to get and maintain an erection has been frustrating to say the least. Now, one thing I've noticed is that I don't seem to get as pronounced high E2 symptoms as I did earlier on. They are more subtle, but no less problematic. I'm giving a shot to once a week, and using adex instead of asin. I've actually had some positive signs so far, and hopeful that this will pan out better than those in the past. I also believe that aromasin is too powerful to be used at lower doses reliably, which is also why I'm giving this protocol and ai combo a shot. If it works 7/10 then I will be satisfied.
For the record, I was on 52e3.5d for about 8 months and it worked very well, until it didn't, and 50e3, but I had more sides and far less reliable erections. I would go low from all of an 1/8 of asin on that protocol.
The past few months have been miserable, and a huge contributor to the demise of a relationship. When you're unable to perform most times you see one another you stop wanting to try. It's very difficult to maintain attraction and intimacy when you lack sexual drive.

Keep an eye on your blood adex is hard on Lipids especially if your taking it regularly

 

[Bigbear]

I might try taking a month off trt every year and just running hcg for that month. Kind of like a little pct I'm willing to bet it might help with libido and feeling better when back on test.

 

[resilient1]

Keep an eye on your blood adex is hard on Lipids especially if your taking it regularly

I shot 120 last night, so I should be able to ride this out without requiring more than a single small dose (1/4mg) of adex tomorrow. I tend to peak around 48hrs, so that should put me in a good spot. Using previous bloods as an example, by the end of the week this should put my trough around 450pmol. Ofc I will confirm after a few more weeks at this dose. Ideally, I would like to get back to an ai-free dose, but a single dose of adex once a week would be a reasonable tradeoff. A buddy of mine only takes 1/4 of adex e4w on 125e4w.

 

[Nixter]

@Nixter Are you able to come off? I have primary hypogonadism, so I'm stuck trying shit until something works. Been on for nearly 8 years and it worked well for the first year.

I'm trying a lower dose (90mg) as a last resort. I'm 3 weeks in and it does feel a bit better, not perfect. I'll give it 6-8 weeks and reassess. I might go lower. My last bloods on 120mg showed my free T, e2, and DHT were all well above reference and my SHBG isn't even that low.

 

[Bigbear]

I'm trying a lower dose (90mg) as a last resort. I'm 3 weeks in and it does feel a bit better, not perfect. I'll give it 6-8 weeks and reassess. I might go lower. My last bloods on 120mg showed my free T, e2, and DHT were all well above reference and my SHBG it's even that low.

I feel your pain I've been off trt for 6 months now and had no libido the entire time. I got used to it and only put out when the wife really wanted to. Hcg and clomid helped I did a month of each on their own then rotated. Felt great energy wise but no libido at all. Even now I'm back on 200mg test and feel nothing I'm getting kind of worried lol. Haven't done blood work in 6 months though so have no clue what's going on. If shbg is high one weekly dose of var can lower it effectively and make a big difference.

 

[resilient1]

I'm trying a lower dose (90mg) as a last resort. I'm 3 weeks in and it does feel a bit better, not perfect. I'll give it 6-8 weeks and reassess. I might go lower. My last bloods on 120mg showed my free T, e2, and DHT were all well above reference and my SHBG it's even that low.

What's your SHBG usually sit at?

 

[SeeMac]

Since I gave some updates to everyone here regarding my PCT attempt, I might as well toss in an update. 41 days since my last 36 mg pin of test C and 40 days of 500IU of HCG per day put me at 37.6 nmol/L TT and over 900 pmol/L free T (above 1000 ng/dl total). There clearly wasn't any desentization from the large doses of hcg since after 12 or 13 days on HCG my TT was 30ish, and that is still with some test c in my system. Balls still aren't full size but clearly that doesn't matter. Been off HCG for 3 days and this morning I injected 100mcg of triptorelin acetate. Going to start enclomiphene at 12.5 mg/day 2 or 3 days from now.

If this fails, I might consider HCG monotherapy at 400-500 IU per day. Felt great for the whole duration I was on and this was despite a 1500 calorie deficit.

 

[Bigbear]

I took 6 months off for fertility, I don't know if it was the time off or the clomid amd hcg but before I couldn't do trt at 160mg/week without high estrogen signs but now I'm up to 250mg a week and still no symptoms. Having a little time off helps.

 

[Grindtight]

I've been on for almost 7 years and would like to come off just to see where I'm at. I'm tired of chasing libido/ed and acne issues.

Should I just stop could turkey and wait for things to reset? What sort of timeline am I looking at? My main concern is having an acne flair up with some sort PCT. Well, also not having a working dick for some time too but that's probably unavoidable in guessing. I'm probably wait until after summer if I do this.

Thanks in advance

You went on trt for a good reason right I presume your doctor knew you needed it.Its a life commitment now why bother coming off and feel like shit.

 

[MuscleMayHem]

I also tried coming off TRT and I gave it a good try. But I hated everything about it. My libido greatly suffered and depression set in and I was just a roller coaster of different emotions so I personally couldn’t handle that part of coming off of it. It was mostly mental but dealing with that wasn’t worth it for me. Now I stay on my 200mg per week and that is my prescription dose and I love how I feel on it.

 

[resilient1]

Since I gave some updates to everyone here regarding my PCT attempt, I might as well toss in an update. 41 days since my last 36 mg pin of test C and 40 days of 500IU of HCG per day put me at 37.6 nmol/L TT and over 900 pmol/L free T (above 1000 ng/dl total). There clearly wasn't any desentization from the large doses of hcg since after 12 or 13 days on HCG my TT was 30ish, and that is still with some test c in my system. Balls still aren't full size but clearly that doesn't matter. Been off HCG for 3 days and this morning I injected 100mcg of triptorelin acetate. Going to start enclomiphene at 12.5 mg/day 2 or 3 days from now.

If this fails, I might consider HCG monotherapy at 400-500 IU per day. Felt great for the whole duration I was on and this was despite a 1500 calorie deficit.

Any update on your progress? I'm curious to know where things are at now.