saw on facebook

[Goldenrod]

I always though the guys dying young were either pushing way too hard and not watching blood markers or they were guys with genetics for heart failure but im not so sure anymore.

As a general rule - sure that is a fair statement, but just like the guys on 2500 mg a week, the gents who take 250 mg a week forever (no breaks/not really TRT unless you need 250 mg to put yourself in a healthy testosterone level for your age) and are forever in supraphysiological levels of test, IGF, insulin, thyroid hormones, etc. - thinking this will not impact your health over an extended period is naive. There was a thread that asked what is your TRT dose and some guys wrote 400 mg a week and then others said, thank goodness, "I thought I was alone". If you take 400 mg of properly doses testosterone a week - your test levels should be off the chart and no one can tell me that is healthy unless you are an outlier. What is a cycle to you if 400 mg is just your normal dosage.

Why do we treat people who have thyroid issues, HGH/IGF diseases, other hormone related genetic issues try to correct it? Look at what happens medically to those who do not have it monitored and controlled. I am no angel - I am taking 250 mg a week for 4 months and then back to TRT doses. Right now my testosterone markers are higher than normal - more than double my normal, but the rest of my blood markers are fine.

Nothing is guaranteed, but if you check your BP multiple times weekly, get your own blood work done pending you can read it or meet with your doctor, get the scans necessary for the organs that are typically impacted by PED's, and eat well, and take the most important supplements to help maintain organ health, thin your blood, etc. you are doing all you can to protect yourself.

If you are genetically predisposed to heart disease/kidney disease/etc. you are more apt to have an issue, but you could have no history of heart disease and using PED's could cause the issue as if you were.
Regardless, this is a body building forum and there will be guys who push it and I am not judging. I just don't want to be a statistic or look back and say WTF did I do that to myself.

I am curious if anyone will chime in - the gents who ended in the ER with hypertensive crisis, acute kidney or liver failure, chest pain, etc. There are many here. I know many who shared their blood work.

No one knows if you will be the unfortunate one who takes a week of tylenol in standard dosages, and you had a liver issue you didn't know about and all of the sudden you have white stool, yellow eyes, are itchy. You won't know you have a liver issue until approx. 75% is damaged.

Anyway, I am conservative and try to be healthy while still enjoying pushing it in the gym and in sports. Do I enjoy PED's - love them, and I think you can take PED's in a safer manner, but I do not believe you can live in a supraphysiological state with hormones as a rule and expect no long term effects.

Each to their own - if you want to roll the dice, it is your life (not directed at you @Bigbear).

 

[animal-inside]

As a general rule - sure that is a fair statement, but just like the guys on 2500 mg a week, the gents who take 250 mg a week forever (no breaks/not really TRT unless you need 250 mg to put yourself in a healthy testosterone level for your age) and are forever in supraphysiological levels of test, IGF, insulin, thyroid hormones, etc. - thinking this will not impact your health over an extended period is naive. There was a thread that asked what is your TRT dose and some guys wrote 400 mg a week and then others said, thank goodness, "I thought I was alone". If you take 400 mg of properly doses testosterone a week - your test levels should be off the chart and no one can tell me that is healthy unless you are an outlier. What is a cycle to you if 400 mg is just your normal dosage.

Why do we treat people who have thyroid issues, HGH/IGF diseases, other hormone related genetic issues try to correct it? Look at what happens medically to those who do not have it monitored and controlled. I am no angel - I am taking 250 mg a week for 4 months and then back to TRT doses. Right now my testosterone markers are higher than normal - more than double my normal, but the rest of my blood markers are fine.

Nothing is guaranteed, but if you check your BP multiple times weekly, get your own blood work done pending you can read it or meet with your doctor, get the scans necessary for the organs that are typically impacted by PED's, and eat well, and take the most important supplements to help maintain organ health, thin your blood, etc. you are doing all you can to protect yourself.

If you are genetically predisposed to heart disease/kidney disease/etc. you are more apt to have an issue, but you could have no history of heart disease and using PED's could cause the issue as if you were.
Regardless, this is a body building forum and there will be guys who push it and I am not judging. I just don't want to be a statistic or look back and say WTF did I do that to myself.

I am curious if anyone will chime in - the gents who ended in the ER with hypertensive crisis, acute kidney or liver failure, chest pain, etc. There are many here. I know many who shared their blood work.

No one knows if you will be the unfortunate one who takes a week of tylenol in standard dosages, and you had a liver issue you didn't know about and all of the sudden you have white stool, yellow eyes, are itchy. You won't know you have a liver issue until approx. 75% is damaged.

Anyway, I am conservative and try to be healthy while still enjoying pushing it in the gym and in sports. Do I enjoy PED's - love them, and I think you can take PED's in a safer manner, but I do not believe you can live in a supraphysiological state with hormones as a rule and expect no long term effects.

Each to their own - if you want to roll the dice, it is your life (not directed at you @Bigbear).

It would be really good for all of us to be more open when this happens.. We need to learn more from each other... I get that it might be kind of embarassing to admit to it though,

I've never been admitted for any issues due to gear except a nasty infection when I was much younger.. I never went to a doctor when I was in my 300lbs years however.. I am sure they wouldn't have let me leave if I did.. I couldn't walk a block without getting red in the face.. When I bent down to tie my shoes and stood up, I felt it..

A couple years ago I did have slightly above normal liver values, but I am 100% certain it wasn't due to any gear.. I was only taking my 100mg a week TRT back then and I hadn't done anything else other than that 100mg for years leading up to it.. I Did lots of blood work and insisted on scans... but never figured out what caused it..

 

[CoolRick]

As a general rule - sure that is a fair statement, but just like the guys on 2500 mg a week, the gents who take 250 mg a week forever (no breaks/not really TRT unless you need 250 mg to put yourself in a healthy testosterone level for your age) and are forever in supraphysiological levels of test, IGF, insulin, thyroid hormones, etc. - thinking this will not impact your health over an extended period is naive. There was a thread that asked what is your TRT dose and some guys wrote 400 mg a week and then others said, thank goodness, "I thought I was alone". If you take 400 mg of properly doses testosterone a week - your test levels should be off the chart and no one can tell me that is healthy unless you are an outlier. What is a cycle to you if 400 mg is just your normal dosage.

Why do we treat people who have thyroid issues, HGH/IGF diseases, other hormone related genetic issues try to correct it? Look at what happens medically to those who do not have it monitored and controlled. I am no angel - I am taking 250 mg a week for 4 months and then back to TRT doses. Right now my testosterone markers are higher than normal - more than double my normal, but the rest of my blood markers are fine.

Nothing is guaranteed, but if you check your BP multiple times weekly, get your own blood work done pending you can read it or meet with your doctor, get the scans necessary for the organs that are typically impacted by PED's, and eat well, and take the most important supplements to help maintain organ health, thin your blood, etc. you are doing all you can to protect yourself.

If you are genetically predisposed to heart disease/kidney disease/etc. you are more apt to have an issue, but you could have no history of heart disease and using PED's could cause the issue as if you were.
Regardless, this is a body building forum and there will be guys who push it and I am not judging. I just don't want to be a statistic or look back and say WTF did I do that to myself.

I am curious if anyone will chime in - the gents who ended in the ER with hypertensive crisis, acute kidney or liver failure, chest pain, etc. There are many here. I know many who shared their blood work.

No one knows if you will be the unfortunate one who takes a week of tylenol in standard dosages, and you had a liver issue you didn't know about and all of the sudden you have white stool, yellow eyes, are itchy. You won't know you have a liver issue until approx. 75% is damaged.

Anyway, I am conservative and try to be healthy while still enjoying pushing it in the gym and in sports. Do I enjoy PED's - love them, and I think you can take PED's in a safer manner, but I do not believe you can live in a supraphysiological state with hormones as a rule and expect no long term effects.

Each to their own - if you want to roll the dice, it is your life (not directed at you @Bigbear).

If this isn't a wake up call for someone, IDK what is.
I think the "TRT+" crowd in particular is sort of deluding themselves with the lower dosages long term approach. It's basically running cycles just with a fancy name to make themselves feel good about it. The old "I don't use as much as the other guy" game.

Not putting anybody down, but I just don't see dressing it up as something other than running cycles helps someone in the end. Better to call a spade a spade IMO. I guess once the party is over they can say they thoroughly enjoyed themselves because they didn't have a care in the world while they did it, that's the upside I suppose.

Again, not trying to cut anyone down, I'm just bringing awareness to it. My take summed up: have fun, enjoy the ride. Just know the fun has to end at some point.

The mantra Clive Owens character in the movie Croupier uses comes to mind: Hang on tightly. Let go lightly.

 

[biguglynewf]

As a general rule - sure that is a fair statement, but just like the guys on 2500 mg a week, the gents who take 250 mg a week forever (no breaks/not really TRT unless you need 250 mg to put yourself in a healthy testosterone level for your age) and are forever in supraphysiological levels of test, IGF, insulin, thyroid hormones, etc. - thinking this will not impact your health over an extended period is naive. There was a thread that asked what is your TRT dose and some guys wrote 400 mg a week and then others said, thank goodness, "I thought I was alone". If you take 400 mg of properly doses testosterone a week - your test levels should be off the chart and no one can tell me that is healthy unless you are an outlier. What is a cycle to you if 400 mg is just your normal dosage.

Why do we treat people who have thyroid issues, HGH/IGF diseases, other hormone related genetic issues try to correct it? Look at what happens medically to those who do not have it monitored and controlled. I am no angel - I am taking 250 mg a week for 4 months and then back to TRT doses. Right now my testosterone markers are higher than normal - more than double my normal, but the rest of my blood markers are fine.

Nothing is guaranteed, but if you check your BP multiple times weekly, get your own blood work done pending you can read it or meet with your doctor, get the scans necessary for the organs that are typically impacted by PED's, and eat well, and take the most important supplements to help maintain organ health, thin your blood, etc. you are doing all you can to protect yourself.

If you are genetically predisposed to heart disease/kidney disease/etc. you are more apt to have an issue, but you could have no history of heart disease and using PED's could cause the issue as if you were.
Regardless, this is a body building forum and there will be guys who push it and I am not judging. I just don't want to be a statistic or look back and say WTF did I do that to myself.

I am curious if anyone will chime in - the gents who ended in the ER with hypertensive crisis, acute kidney or liver failure, chest pain, etc. There are many here. I know many who shared their blood work.

No one knows if you will be the unfortunate one who takes a week of tylenol in standard dosages, and you had a liver issue you didn't know about and all of the sudden you have white stool, yellow eyes, are itchy. You won't know you have a liver issue until approx. 75% is damaged.

Anyway, I am conservative and try to be healthy while still enjoying pushing it in the gym and in sports. Do I enjoy PED's - love them, and I think you can take PED's in a safer manner, but I do not believe you can live in a supraphysiological state with hormones as a rule and expect no long term effects.

Each to their own - if you want to roll the dice, it is your life (not directed at you @Bigbear).

Redrocket who many of the older fellas may remember was one of those guys who was "lucky" to never experience negative sides. He was a competitor, coach and moderated at Canadianmass and it's predecessors.

He never really paid attention to any monitoring because he never "felt" anything negative.

One day at work he wasn't feeling well and fainted. He had his plant nurse take his BP while waiting for an ambulance. It was something in the range of 200 over some God awful number.

This is going back many years now so I don't recall how high it was....but it was a number that I didn't know was possible to have.

Fast forward to today. Red has been in kidney failure for many years and is on the donor list finally. He has had many TIAs and at least one, if not two major strokes which he has been lucky enough to recover fully from. He has an enlarged heart and suffers from that as well, although not as much as the kidney and stroke issues have caused.

He has run gear for quite some time. That has been a huge thing for him to accept. All the things that once defined him are not what he is or can be anymore.

Taureau will know our friend AJDos. Aj was an absolute pillar of the online bodybuilding community. Once an npc competitor, AJ was a massive man. His personality was even bigger and gave so much to build the online BB community. He was truly larger than life.

He was busted years ago and spent time in federal prison. Upon his release, he started bodybuilding again and after getting out of a halfway house and getting back on his feet, his roommate called on him one morning to hit the gym. AJ didn't respond, his roommate called him a lazy fuck and went off to train without him. AJ didn't miss many workouts. His roommate returned post workout to discover AJ was still in bed. Giving him a kick to get his lady ass up, he realized AJ wasn't breathing and had died in his sleep. He had a heart attack, I want to say he was 43 at the time...maybe taureau could correct that? Regardless he wasn't old.

And the list goes on.....

Two absolutely larger than life humans in mind spirit and body....especially AJ. He was a massive man. He did all the things right...except probably monitoring his actual health, especially post release. The common denominator here was both felt great no matter what they took and never had an event prior to the major ones. Red is still alive and doing well for himself, he has settled but knows life will ultimately be cut short and he lives with that.

Unfortunately AJ didn't have that chance. I miss him so much. He was a dear friend.

I suppose the point here is, in response to GR's post. No matter which way we wish to slice it, and even when we take precautions, we have to admit to ourselves that there is a cost here. We make informed choices and should be doing what we can to ensure our longevity by controlling risk factors associated with aas use as best we can. Some of us will experience a long road, some not. Some can be relatively controlled and impacts minimized by conservative decisions with long term goals prioritized over short term successes or goals.

Regardless, like any other risk factors, they are there and must be accounted for and actually realized and accepted when deciding our path. Direction and priorities will change with time.

I fault no one with their decisions.....as long as they are informed ones. However, thinking that use, even responsible use, doesn't have potential consequences isn't being honest with yourself.

It's a tough road to navigate and the lines can blur often....especially in the immediate moments vs. the long game forward.

 

[Sorbate]

I am just waiting to see when Stallone dies and then I will have an idea of how long you can last on moderate dosages, lol.

As a note, there are times I wonder where a previous member went that was very active and then just disappeared. I always wonder if they had an issue, and stopped bodybuilding and taking gear, but never came on to tell others, maybe out of embarrassment.

Honestly it would be better if people chimed in and said when they had things happen.

 

[animal-inside]

I am just waiting to see when Stallone dies and then I will have an idea of how long you can last on moderate dosages, lol.

As a note, there are times I wonder where a previous member went that was very active and then just disappeared. I always wonder if they had an issue, and stopped bodybuilding and taking gear, but never came on to tell others, maybe out of embarrassment.

Honestly it would be better if people chimed in and said when they had things happen.

I think majority of guys who disappear just get busy with life, quite the hobby or loose interest in the boards..

I "grew up" on american boards.. Lots of those guys who were on the board 20-25 years ago are still around on my social media, but have long since left the boards.. majoirity quite lifting weights all together.

One of the guys I do know who passed due to usage was a guy nammed "masswithclass"... He was on american boards and did lot of bbing competitions. The guy knew his stuff.. walked the walk and talked the talk.. he wasn't a monster either.. Can't recall his weight class, but I'd guess around that 190/195 mark on stage.. he never did big bulks.. he was always in decent shape.. His cycles were not huge, but there were not light either..

He literally documented his passing on the forums.. It started with him explaining he was admitted to hospital either leading up to compeition or shortly afterwards.. His kidneys were the issue.. within 6 months he was on dialysis, full time in hospital, trying to get a transplant and then he had passed on.. I would guess he was 35-40 when he passed.

He told us that he was nearly positive the issues were caused by directs and I beleive excessive protien intake..

I watched it all unfold, read his posts etc... and I walked away with the mentality "ok as long as I don't use directs I'll be fine"... stupid way to rationalize something is ok that you really know could kill you or shorten your life

 

[vancitybb]

I think majority of guys who disappear just get busy with life, quite the hobby or loose interest in the boards..

I "grew up" on american boards.. Lots of those guys who were on the board 20-25 years ago are still around on my social media, but have long since left the boards.. majoirity quite lifting weights all together.

One of the guys I do know who passed due to usage was a guy nammed "masswithclass"... He was on american boards and did lot of bbing competitions. The guy knew his stuff.. walked the walk and talked the talk.. he wasn't a monster either.. Can't recall his weight class, but I'd guess around that 190/195 mark on stage.. he never did big bulks.. he was always in decent shape.. His cycles were not huge, but there were not light either..

He literally documented his passing on the forums.. It started with him explaining he was admitted to hospital either leading up to compeition or shortly afterwards.. His kidneys were the issue.. within 6 months he was on dialysis, full time in hospital, trying to get a transplant and then he had passed on.. I would guess he was 35-40 when he passed.

He told us that he was nearly positive the issues were caused by directs and I beleive excessive protien intake..

I watched it all unfold, read his posts etc... and I walked away with the mentality "ok as long as I don't use directs I'll be fine"... stupid way to rationalize something is ok that you really know could kill you or shorten your life

Sorry, does "directs" = diuretics?

 

[animal-inside]

Sorry, does "directs" = diuretics?

Yup, my grammar can be quite bad. I'm working on it.