New to trt (+) and feeling like shit

[n28iv]

I joined the forum back in April when I started trt (onmen) basically just to read the opinions and experiences of others. Ive spent hours upon hours reading on a couple different forums and reddit, but I find this one the most consistent and knowledgable. Hoping to get some guidance or pointers from you guys to hopefully resolve some of the fatigue.

My initial baseline blood worked showed my total T at 15.5 and the free T at 313.

The nurse practitioner started me at 100mg test cyp per week. I noticed increased vascularity and muscle fullness almost instantly. Erections and sleep improved within a couple days as well. Felt pretty good for the first few weeks and then I gradually began to revert to how I was feeling before. Started to feel super drained and fatigued all the time. No other sides than that though. The NP chalked it up to me having natural T + the exogenous T added in causing it to be higher. As the natural T dissipated, I started to feel closer to starting so she bumped it up.

At the 3 month BW follow up, my total T was 27.3 and free T 702. But ferritin had tanked from 116 to 30. I figured thats why I was so fatigued. I had dealt with low ferritin a few years ago, so was familiar with how to bring it back up by supplementing with black strap molasses and chlorophyll. Within a few days my energy had started to improve.

While reading through all the posts over that first couple months I kept reading about trt +. I couldn't believe how much difference 100mg/week made for me and was excited to add a little extra. I'm mid 40's so have no interest in blasting now, but I'd try some of the milder compounds at low doses. I gained about 10lbs since starting the trt.

For reference, biggest I ever got naturally was low 170's, and that peaked pretty much right up until the start of covid. I was training couple hours a day, 6 days a week. My weight will always stabilize at around 150 if I'm not consistent with training and putting in the extra work. I'm fairly lean year round and have always had a hard time putting on weight without eating a ton.

So after that first follow up the NP bumped up my dose to 125/week. I decided to add 25mg of var to the mix. I started to break out pretty bad so I dropped the var and added primo. I started at 50mg/week and slowly upped it until I hit 100mg/week. I still got some acne but not nearly as bad as with the var. I noticed some slight changes in body composition but nothing crazy. Gained another 7-10lbs over the next 7-8 weeks. Came off about a month ago so I could stabilize for follow up blood work. My weight has came down to low/mid 160's so I only lost a few lbs.

Still felt fatigued and tired for the last 3 months. I'm napping multiple times a day and still can't get shit done. Just feel like the tank is running on empty.

In the new blood work my total T is 30.9 and free T wasn't on there yet. My ferritin is back up to 85 but my estrodial went up from 73 to 106 to 212 currently. Hemoglobin 151/167/175 and Hematocrit 0.46/0.51/0.52 (base/first/current ). Everything else is within range.

So I'm wondering if any of you were super fatigued when starting trt? If so how did you resolve it? I've read quite a few testimonies of guys that eventually came off because they felt like shit and just couldn't get it dialed in.

Is it common to break out on such a low dose of var? Does it vary with the lab?

Will primo mess with my blood work noticably if i stay on for longer?
I was hoping to run 150T and 100 deca to see if it would help sooth some of the bodily aches and pains that seem to want to constantly remind me of my reckless youth. Do you think that would make things worse. I would start at 50/wk and work up from there.

I was thinking of bumping up the T to 150 or 175 for the next 8-10 weeks. How long would I need to titrate back down for the next blood work to look normal?

Sorry for such a long post but just want to give as much info as might be needed to help.

Thanks in advance for any help and suggestions

 

[ajfromab]

I personally think your fatigue might be something else . Maybe you aren’t sleeping right or some part of your diet is off I don’t know
No idea why you got more acne on var than primo . I almost never get acne from anavar because it’s so mild I’ve definitely had it on primo though. Switching to deca if you are already getting acne you will absolutely get it on deca . 100 deca a week is pretty mild but you will definitely see some acne if you had it on var

 

[Negan]

Deca will probably cross detect as testosterone but I'm not sure about that. Primo has a suicide aromatase inhibitory effect through one of its metabolites so it will lower estrogen but it doesn't seem to mess up anything else on my bloodwork other than decreased shbg. Mind you I only use like 50 per week with 150 test.

after about 3 weeks at normal dose your bloodwork will probably be the same or close for testosterone if you bump it up, however hemoglobin and hematocrit will probably be slightly elevated. You're testing at the top of the reference range for hormones though so if it gets much higher they might reduce your dose.

 

[Rocky]

I used to abuse steroids, used everyone one, massive to low doses so I tried everything

what i found was the only real replacement testosterone that worked for me was testosterone gel, can't say why for sure but I have a lot of thoughts, for one it actually acts like natural testosterone in that it gives daily peaks and troughs, I feel amazing every single day and I feel amazing even when I skip a dose.

I think the human body needs the peaks and troughs of testosterone and not chronically elevated testosterone levels, but thats just my personal opinion. I take no anti estrogens or other steroids ever now. I am super lean, have abs, im not jacked but I also dont go to the gym anymore. All my bloods and health markers are amazing. I take an incredibly low dose of 2.5g of androgel, 25mg testosterone a day (its differently dosed mg vs an injectable since most of its not absorbed, but standard dose is 50mg-100mg a day). I basically take the bare minimum, I could probably up my dose to 50mg but I found it was too much.

I personally dont like the jacked look/feeling anymore, at 50mg I start getting muscular even when I am not going to the gym, feels kind of un-natural to gain muscle and not workout so I keep my dose at 25mg, also keeps the mTOR low, AMPK high and autophagy going. Sometimes I take an extra 25mg every now and then, but sometimes I skip a day I feel no real difference skipping a day.
Lots of people talk about autophagy but dont realize taking anabolics will decrease it, especially chronically elevated anabolic hormones

 

[Musclemaker]

I agree with @ajfromab that it sounds like something else. I certainly don’t want to highjack your thread but I have to ask: did you get vaccinated for covid? Apologies if it’s none of my business - just say so if you feel that way.

 

[Cheapshot]

I personally think your fatigue might be something else . Maybe you aren’t sleeping right or some part of your diet is off I don’t know
No idea why you got more acne on var than primo . I almost never get acne from anavar because it’s so mild I’ve definitely had it on primo though. Switching to deca if you are already getting acne you will absolutely get it on deca . 100 deca a week is pretty mild but you will definitely see some acne if you had it on var

I agree, the only var I ever got acne from was whinny..lol

 

[Goldenrod]

I have no idea if the hormones are impacting how you feel. If you want legit help, you will have to do what the doc says and report your findings and work with them. If you start playing mad scientist with different hormones, you will run the risk of losing your script if the doctor checks more than total test. Especially if you don't know how long it takes your body to get back to normal.

It has already been said Deca will increase your total test numbers on blood tests. I doubt it will be the same as adding 100 mg of test but it will increase the number or at least it does for many. Exactly, how much - you have to do a few dry runs and pay for it yourself to find out.
Primo will most definitely impact your blood work if they test more than total test. Depending on your dosage, even a low dose of 100 mg a week will send your free test through the roof. It won't impact your total test number - keep in mind this is for the average person. Most DHT compounds, even in low doses, will not impact your total but will send your free test through the roof in weeks to months.

I paid for my own hormone tests to determine what compounds do what to my blood tests - total and free test, estrogen, prolactin, LH, and SHBG.
Primo gives me energy, increases my lymphocyte count slightly, makes me feel good, and the only hormone it impacts at up to 300 mg a week is my free test. It is supposed to act as an AI as well but I have never had estrogen issues considering I don't increase my test dose when adding in another compound. I never ran high doses of anything and have never needed an AI in my life.

If I was you, I would work with my doctor and get yourself sorted out and make sure they check out more than just hormones. Fatigue / sleep issues could be from a host of issues. Stress, anxiety, depression, other hormal issues, and a myriad of issues can mess up your sleep. None of those should be embarassing. You would be surprised how many huge guys suffer from anxiety and depression especially when they play hormonal rollercoaster.

Best of luck getting this sorted out. I will say the only compound I would consider adding is Primo at a low dose but not without a washout period before blood tests if your doc checks free test or they are going to wonder what is going on.

 

[Sorbate]

If you felt better on higher test, why didn't you buy test prop and inject eod to bump up your test amount? This way you cna drop the prop 2 weeks before your bloods and be fine.

I would bet diet has partly to do with your issues.

Don't fly all over the plae changing things every 2 weeks, that will not help.

BTW, acne at the start is normal. After a while your body will adjust and you will get less acne. I hardly get any that is serious (like my face) anymore.

 

[n28iv]

I personally think your fatigue might be something else . Maybe you aren’t sleeping right or some part of your diet is off I don’t know
No idea why you got more acne on var than primo . I almost never get acne from anavar because it’s so mild I’ve definitely had it on primo though. Switching to deca if you are already getting acne you will absolutely get it on deca . 100 deca a week is pretty mild but you will definitely see some acne if you had it on var

Sleep has been hit and miss. Diet is usually clean and consistent. The fatigue only really started shortly after the trt.

I'm fairly sensitive to acne if I eat certain things. I've identified and eliminated most of the culprits (seed oils etc) over the years. I thought the dosages were quite small so was surprised how bad and quick the reaction was. It's mostly concentrated on the arms and some slightly on the chest/abdomen area.

I'll start slow with the deca and see how it plays out.

 

[n28iv]

Deca will probably cross detect as testosterone but I'm not sure about that. Primo has a suicide aromatase inhibitory effect through one of its metabolites so it will lower estrogen but it doesn't seem to mess up anything else on my bloodwork other than decreased shbg. Mind you I only use like 50 per week with 150 test.

after about 3 weeks at normal dose your bloodwork will probably be the same or close for testosterone if you bump it up, however hemoglobin and hematocrit will probably be slightly elevated. You're testing at the top of the reference range for hormones though so if it gets much higher they might reduce your dose.

From what I read of other experiences, I thought the primo would lower my estrogen but my recent numbers are quite a bit higher. I was prescribed a 1/4 pill a week of Arimidex but thought I'd just take the primo instead to balance it.

Is there a way to lower the hemoglobin and Hematocrit?

 

[n28iv]

I used to abuse steroids, used everyone one, massive to low doses so I tried everything

what i found was the only real replacement testosterone that worked for me was testosterone gel, can't say why for sure but I have a lot of thoughts, for one it actually acts like natural testosterone in that it gives daily peaks and troughs, I feel amazing every single day and I feel amazing even when I skip a dose.

I think the human body needs the peaks and troughs of testosterone and not chronically elevated testosterone levels, but thats just my personal opinion. I take no anti estrogens or other steroids ever now. I am super lean, have abs, im not jacked but I also dont go to the gym anymore. All my bloods and health markers are amazing. I take an incredibly low dose of 2.5g of androgel, 25mg testosterone a day (its differently dosed mg vs an injectable since most of its not absorbed, but standard dose is 50mg-100mg a day). I basically take the bare minimum, I could probably up my dose to 50mg but I found it was too much.

I personally dont like the jacked look/feeling anymore, at 50mg I start getting muscular even when I am not going to the gym, feels kind of un-natural to gain muscle and not workout so I keep my dose at 25mg, also keeps the mTOR low, AMPK high and autophagy going. Sometimes I take an extra 25mg every now and then, but sometimes I skip a day I feel no real difference skipping a day.
Lots of people talk about autophagy but dont realize taking anabolics will decrease it, especially chronically elevated anabolic hormones

I have a follow up consult tomorrow and I'm going to inquire about the gel. I feel like I've responded quite well (physical appearance) to the injections but I really have nothing to compare it to.

 

[n28iv]

I agree with @ajfromab that it sounds like something else. I certainly don’t want to highjack your thread but I have to ask: did you get vaccinated for covid? Apologies if it’s none of my business - just say so if you feel that way.

haha very valid question. That's the first thing that comes to mind now any time I hear of "so and so getting cancer" or a stroke, or died suddenly. The human condition was on a steady decline before the shots but I've seen a massive increase of issues since.


I seen them laying the groundwork for the whole covid agenda for probably 15-20 years prior so I seenbit coming from a mile away. Never got any shots, never wore a mask or took any tests.

I was quite blunt about the whole situation and feel I was part responsible for a large number of people in my circle for not buying into the whole agenda.

 

[n28iv]

I agree, the only var I ever got acne from was whinny..lol

That's definitely a possibility. I bought it from a lab that was praised on another forum but never actually got it tested. And to be honest I wouldn't know the difference from comparing the effects of the two.

 

[n28iv]

I have no idea if the hormones are impacting how you feel. If you want legit help, you will have to do what the doc says and report your findings and work with them. If you start playing mad scientist with different hormones, you will run the risk of losing your script if the doctor checks more than total test. Especially if you don't know how long it takes your body to get back to normal.

It has already been said Deca will increase your total test numbers on blood tests. I doubt it will be the same as adding 100 mg of test but it will increase the number or at least it does for many. Exactly, how much - you have to do a few dry runs and pay for it yourself to find out.
Primo will most definitely impact your blood work if they test more than total test. Depending on your dosage, even a low dose of 100 mg a week will send your free test through the roof. It won't impact your total test number - keep in mind this is for the average person. Most DHT compounds, even in low doses, will not impact your total but will send your free test through the roof in weeks to months.

I paid for my own hormone tests to determine what compounds do what to my blood tests - total and free test, estrogen, prolactin, LH, and SHBG.
Primo gives me energy, increases my lymphocyte count slightly, makes me feel good, and the only hormone it impacts at up to 300 mg a week is my free test. It is supposed to act as an AI as well but I have never had estrogen issues considering I don't increase my test dose when adding in another compound. I never ran high doses of anything and have never needed an AI in my life.

If I was you, I would work with my doctor and get yourself sorted out and make sure they check out more than just hormones. Fatigue / sleep issues could be from a host of issues. Stress, anxiety, depression, other hormal issues, and a myriad of issues can mess up your sleep. None of those should be embarassing. You would be surprised how many huge guys suffer from anxiety and depression especially when they play hormonal rollercoaster.

Best of luck getting this sorted out. I will say the only compound I would consider adding is Primo at a low dose but not without a washout period before blood tests if your doc checks free test or they are going to wonder what is going on.

The problem with onmen is you get a different nurse practitioner every time and I'm not sure how well they're trained to deal with unoptimal results. I have a friend who just switched from them to a local doctor because he has been feeling sort of the same way as me and they couldn't get him sorted. He's been on just trt for maybe a year now. If that Dr is better I might switch over as well. I think the price was cheaper too and you deal with her directly.

Mind if I ask where you got your own tests done? Did you need a requisition?

I definitely didn't feel like that on the primo. Maybe it's not even primo either lol

 

[Negan]

From what I read of other experiences, I thought the primo would lower my estrogen but my recent numbers are quite a bit higher. I was prescribed a 1/4 pill a week of Arimidex but thought I'd just take the primo instead to balance it.

Is there a way to lower the hemoglobin and Hematocrit?

Primo lowers my estrogen quite a bit even at 100 test 25 primo. Only way to lower hemoglobin and hematocrit is blood donation, I donate twice a year.

 

[n28iv]

If you felt better on higher test, why didn't you buy test prop and inject eod to bump up your test amount? This way you cna drop the prop 2 weeks before your bloods and be fine.

I would bet diet has partly to do with your issues.

Don't fly all over the plae changing things every 2 weeks, that will not help.

BTW, acne at the start is normal. After a while your body will adjust and you will get less acne. I hardly get any that is serious (like my face) anymore.

First 3 months I just went with what they prescribed so I could get a baseline of what running only test would do to my blood work. Now that I have that ill experiment with higher test only. I was curious about the other milder compounds and just wanted to experiment with each individually at low dosages to see how I'd react.

I'll try the test prop. I got cyp because that's what I was prescribed but the shorter Ester makes sense to get it out quicker for the follow up blood works.

My diet is really clean. We typically on eat organic whole foods. Nothing really processed. Maybe eat out a couple times a year. Don't drink, smoke or do drugs. Been this way for the last 15 years. Unless the abuse from my earlier years is catching up to me but this didn't really start until after the trt. Maybe my bodies just adjusting. I read one testimony of a guy that had to get blood transfusions for the first 2 years after starting trt and then his body just naturally balanced out and he felt great after that initial 2 years.

Another thing I've found while looking for answers is that is quite common is when you add additional test, the body makes more rbc. Which uptakes your ferritin and that plummets your reserves. This can definitely make you feel drained and fatigued. But I've brought my ferritin back up and still feeling low. I've found a method that is supposed to boost the ferritin quickly that I'm trying this week and will update once I'm done.

Yeah I thought I'd just try each thing for 2 months in between bloods to see how each would affect me. With a month break in between to reset. I thought with such low doses it would be OK but maybe I'll just slow it down a bit.

After seeing how much I responded to the 100mg of T a week I think I was like a kid before Christmas and just want to open all the presents at once lol. Probably be best to get optimized first and then experiment after.

Luckily all the acne was on my arms and body. Barely none on my face. Sucks to have in the middle of summer though.

 

[n28iv]

Just want to say thanks to everyone that responded. I wasn't expecting that much of a response and I really appreciate it!

 

[Musclemaker]

You on HGH? That can make you feel fatigued.

 

[Sorbate]

First 3 months I just went with what they prescribed so I could get a baseline of what running only test would do to my blood work. Now that I have that ill experiment with higher test only. I was curious about the other milder compounds and just wanted to experiment with each individually at low dosages to see how I'd react.

IMO, test is likely the mildest compound you can run.

I'll try the test prop. I got cyp because that's what I was prescribed but the shorter Ester makes sense to get it out quicker for the follow up blood works.

My diet is really clean. We typically on eat organic whole foods. Nothing really processed. Maybe eat out a couple times a year. Don't drink, smoke or do drugs. Been this way for the last 15 years. Unless the abuse from my earlier years is catching up to me but this didn't really start until after the trt. Maybe my bodies just adjusting. I read one testimony of a guy that had to get blood transfusions for the first 2 years after starting trt and then his body just naturally balanced out and he felt great after that initial 2 years.
I’m thinking your diet is too restrictive. You need more now that you have better test levels. Maybe your restrictive diet caused your lower testosterone. Best thing to do is post up your REAL diet. Not the one you think we would agree with. No one will slam you here.

Another thing I've found while looking for answers is that is quite common is when you add additional test, the body makes more rbc. Which uptakes your ferritin and that plummets your reserves. This can definitely make you feel drained and fatigued. But I've brought my ferritin back up and still feeling low. I've found a method that is supposed to boost the ferritin quickly that I'm trying this week and will update once I'm done.

Again thinking diet related.

Yeah I thought I'd just try each thing for 2 months in between bloods to see how each would affect me. With a month break in between to reset. I thought with such low doses it would be OK but maybe I'll just slow it down a bit.

Anavar is rough on me, 2 months of primo isn’t long enough. 8 weeks and your body would have been just balancing out and the acne from primo would have started to subside.

After seeing how much I responded to the 100mg of T a week I think I was like a kid before Christmas and just want to open all the presents at once lol. Probably be best to get optimized first and then experiment after.

Luckily all the acne was on my arms and body. Barely none on my face. Sucks to have in the middle of summer though.

As you run more gear the acne will calm. It’s almost like your body gets used to it. I only get a few on cycle now after almost a decade.

 

[4_horsemen]

I have no idea if the hormones are impacting how you feel. If you want legit help, you will have to do what the doc says and report your findings and work with them. If you start playing mad scientist with different hormones, you will run the risk of losing your script if the doctor checks more than total test. Especially if you don't know how long it takes your body to get back to normal.

It has already been said Deca will increase your total test numbers on blood tests. I doubt it will be the same as adding 100 mg of test but it will increase the number or at least it does for many. Exactly, how much - you have to do a few dry runs and pay for it yourself to find out.
Primo will most definitely impact your blood work if they test more than total test. Depending on your dosage, even a low dose of 100 mg a week will send your free test through the roof. It won't impact your total test number - keep in mind this is for the average person. Most DHT compounds, even in low doses, will not impact your total but will send your free test through the roof in weeks to months.

I paid for my own hormone tests to determine what compounds do what to my blood tests - total and free test, estrogen, prolactin, LH, and SHBG.
Primo gives me energy, increases my lymphocyte count slightly, makes me feel good, and the only hormone it impacts at up to 300 mg a week is my free test. It is supposed to act as an AI as well but I have never had estrogen issues considering I don't increase my test dose when adding in another compound. I never ran high doses of anything and have never needed an AI in my life.

If I was you, I would work with my doctor and get yourself sorted out and make sure they check out more than just hormones. Fatigue / sleep issues could be from a host of issues. Stress, anxiety, depression, other hormal issues, and a myriad of issues can mess up your sleep. None of those should be embarassing. You would be surprised how many huge guys suffer from anxiety and depression especially when they play hormonal rollercoaster.

Best of luck getting this sorted out. I will say the only compound I would consider adding is Primo at a low dose but not without a washout period before blood tests if your doc checks free test or they are going to wonder what is going on.

Where are you getting your labs done these days? What province are you in?