Just starting to work out the basics

[kaylo]

I thinknyou are right about genital cancer, but i even confirmed with AI googlr (ha ha) that it does accelerate growth

I dont know if HGH, I might be confusing them

And for me getting on TRT my levels were actually normal I GOT ON BECAUSE IT WAS THE THING I NEEDED TO CLEAN MYSELF UP


Like man, i was drinking and doing blow for a couple years there

My health went on the fritZ

But I decided to Pin myself and change my life around. Doc saw my whole journey downhill from Gym Bro to Drunken Coke head To Gym bro again

That was a drastic enough lifestyle change to motivate me that I got script.

My levels were 18 when I was healthy, 11 during my bender years, then hit 29.9
(Now I think im a bit over at 43 when my body leveled out)

But yeah, thats how im here

 

[CoolRick]

I thinknyou are right about genital cancer, but i even confirmed with AI googlr (ha ha) that it does accelerate growth

I dont know if HGH, I might be confusing them

And for me getting on TRT my levels were actually normal I GOT ON BECAUSE IT WAS THE THING I NEEDED TO CLEAN MYSELF UP


Like man, i was drinking and doing blow for a couple years there

My health went on the fritZ

But I decided to Pin myself and change my life around. Doc saw my whole journey downhill from Gym Bro to Drunken Coke head To Gym bro again

That was a drastic enough lifestyle change to motivate me that I got script.

My levels were 18 when I was healthy, 11 during my bender years, then hit 29.9
(Now I think im a bit over at 43 when my body leveled out)

But yeah, thats how im here

I know the temptation. I had a good thing going with gear but I had to stop. Mentally I had to change how I viewed fitness to make it worthwhile without enhanced gains being the motivation.

So I'm in the other boat, mostly because I'm so hard headed that I refuse to use gear as a crutch to motivate me

But, since you have script and a doc is helping you manage your health why stop? The benefits are there, and they may go away if you do.

You can always use HCG to keep some testicular function if that's what your concern. Having kids may be problematic however and it can take a long time to restore fertility so be aware. On the flip side sterility is not guaranteed while using TRT or even full blown contest cycles.

 

[bc__boy]

Not sure how I missed this post, welcome to the forum @kaylo.
I am a little confused as you mention being out on TRT (I believe) - I skimmed the posts. If that is the case, it is not normal to be put on 250 mg a week, but that does not make @Redz a huge outlier. Some people need more for whatever reason, same with all medications. 100 mg a week puts me at the top of the range or a bit over.
You are covering off a lot of topics.
1. No, do not increase your dosage until you have side effects. Side effects are usually not a pleasant experience other than the mood enhancement, erection quality, sex drive, confidence, testosterone can give - etc. 250 mg is not a large 'cycle' but it is what I do and it completely shuts me down and I would have walnuts for testicles if it was not for HCG. 250 mg of testosterone would put me at twice the normal range which will help a lot with building muscle.
2. Do not add in an AI for estrogen if you have side effects as you won't know what is going on until you get blood work done. Get a full hormone profile done - estrogen, test (total and free), SHBG, and LH at a minimum. As for most blood work - most docs go by blood work regarding health and each province is different. At minimum I want PSA, CBC, liver and kidney (Creatinine / eGFR / GGT / ALY / ALP / AST), lipid profile, and inflammation markers. Often you will get a basic CRP and if the doctor is educated a ferritin. If they will order a high sensitive CRP even better.
Inflammation on a chronic basis is your enemy and why so many of us take anti-inflammatory supplements/herbs.
3. Always have Arimidex or Aromasin on hand, doubt you will need it but if you do it is like a condom. Better to have and not need.
4. Get your testosterone measured (blood work) on 250 mg a week so you know what it does - depending what ester you are on will depend when you take the test, but if on E or C - after a few weeks of twice a week injections, you should have reasonably stable levels.
5. You mentioned it and glad you did, 'listen to your body'. If you listen it will tell you when you need to take a week off weights to prevent injuries, if something doesn't feel right, etc. If something feels off - blood work and even a home urinalysis can give you valuable info. Urinalysis strips are cheap, you can do these once a week and are not near as good as blood work but will help tell you if you headed towards a liver/kidney issue or a more serious issue. There are excellent books online on how to read the changes in colour. As with blood work, you can ask the forum and there are lots of guys who can help.
6. Even if you take HCG - (I prefer 500 mcg's two to three times a week on TRT), my testes are not as large as they were once. I have never had estrogen issues from HCG / some people have a small spike in estrogen. HCG helps keep your testicle size, but over time if they are no longer producting testosterone which they won't if you have exogenous testosterone - expect some shrinkage.
7. If this is your first cycle, you need to learn the basics before jumping into HGH. Learn as much as you can about diet for building muscle / staying lean as food is the most important part of any weight lifting program. Hire @Funnyman or read and you find good threads.

I don't care if you take 250 mg and your testosterone / hormones are no longer within the normal range or 2 grams and you are off the charts - you should consider specific health supplements to give yourself the best chance of remaining healthy. There are great threads here, but it can be discussed again. You don't need to spend a fortune on supplements and take 20, but there are many that will help protect your organs, keep your BP and lipids in check, and fight inflammation.

Seems like a reasonable starting point - if fertility is in the future, learn to workout/train off all steroids and expect a dip in test levels while you do a PCT. There are great drugs to help kick start the testicles but it isn't a 3-4 week progress. You can start producting sperm again, but the odds the morphology and numbers of sperm will be acceptable in a month is low. I am speaking of the average person, men have babies on large cycles, all it takes is one, but the chances go down significantly.
If you want children, trying to stay on TRT and taking other drugs to counteract the TRT is not an easy proposition. Most people who want kids, come off completely - take HMG, HCG, Clomid, Gonadorelin, etc. There are a lot of choices to help get the boys working again, but time is not on your side if you are headed towards 40.

Nice post, just what I was looking for.

 

[kaylo]

I know the temptation. I had a good thing going with gear but I had to stop. Mentally I had to change how I viewed fitness to make it worthwhile without enhanced gains being the motivation.

So I'm in the other boat, mostly because I'm so hard headed that I refuse to use gear as a crutch to motivate me

But, since you have script and a doc is helping you manage your health why stop? The benefits are there, and they may go away if you do.

You can always use HCG to keep some testicular function if that's what your concern. Having kids may be problematic however and it can take a long time to restore fertility so be aware. On the flip side sterility is not guaranteed while using TRT or even
think im happy to just be Uncle at this point in my life.

My reply format got fucked up anyways

Ahha well you have a stronger will than me then brother
I needed it to get my shit together, so hats off to you

for kids though Im a big kid at heart so I dont think that children rasing children is a good idea at this stage in my life

Also, im okay with the fertility part of it, the chances of me finding a woman I wanna have kids with are less than 0%

(That's a high-IQ joke if you get it)

 

[Goldenrod]

I thinknyou are right about genital cancer, but i even confirmed with AI googlr (ha ha) that it does accelerate growth

I dont know if HGH, I might be confusing them

And for me getting on TRT my levels were actually normal I GOT ON BECAUSE IT WAS THE THING I NEEDED TO CLEAN MYSELF UP


Like man, i was drinking and doing blow for a couple years there

My health went on the fritZ

But I decided to Pin myself and change my life around. Doc saw my whole journey downhill from Gym Bro to Drunken Coke head To Gym bro again

That was a drastic enough lifestyle change to motivate me that I got script.

My levels were 18 when I was healthy, 11 during my bender years, then hit 29.9
(Now I think im a bit over at 43 when my body leveled out)

But yeah, thats how im here

HCG will not cause cancer, but it will increase the growth rate of existing cancers as I understand it, but I am not a doctor. I am referring to long - term usage, but keep in mind doctors often prescribe this right along side TRT for the life of a patient. All the same, higher levels are a tumour marker for hormone related cancers and help doctors pin down what kind of cancer you may have.

Much like a 24 urinalysis will tell you if you have elevated 5-HIAA for carcinoid cancers if a doctor orders this test.

I agree with @CoolRick regarding HGH, one of the double edged swords of HGH is increased IGF which is like pouring gas on a fire for growth of good and bad cells. This is why people trying to grow muscles love it for recovery & growth - not just existing cell growth as steroids do, but also increases cell fusion which helps existing muscles grow bigger and repair much faster.
This is a topic I found contradicting evidence on. For years people say you don't just get hypertrophy, you can also get hyperplasia - more evidence is coming forward indicating there may be a minor amount of cell hyperplasia, but the main benefit is fat loss and hypertrophy / cell fusion. Trying to follow all the info is only as good as who is spewing it out, so I take everything I hear from so called 'experts' with a grain of salt.

If you happen to get cancer cells which we all do, and the body has natural defences to rid the body of them, high IGF will help these 'bad cells' grow much faster, but it does not cause cancer or so I have led to believe to reading.

One way to combat hormone related cancers is to ensure you are getting a lot of indole-3-carboinol which crucierous vegetigables are loaded with. You can also buy it as a supplement, but I try to eat a lot of broccoli, asparagus, brussel sprouts, etc.

Take all this with as opinion and not fact. It is an opinion based on what I have read.
Three are many people here who are very knowledgeable and intelligent and may have a different perspective and more to add. @libo / @gondar1 - do either of you have an opinion of HCG/HGH and cancer?

 

[CoolRick]

HCG will not cause cancer, but it will increase the growth rate of existing cancers as I understand it, but I am not a doctor. I am referring to long - term usage, but keep in mind doctors often prescribe this right along side TRT for the life of a patient. All the same, higher levels are a tumour marker for hormone related cancers and help doctors pin down what kind of cancer you may have.

Much like a 24 urinalysis will tell you if you have elevated 5-HIAA for carcinoid cancers if a doctor orders this test.

I agree with @CoolRick regarding HGH, one of the double edged swords of HGH is increased IGF which is like pouring gas on a fire for growth of good and bad cells. This is why people trying to grow muscles love it for recovery & growth - not just existing cell growth as steroids do, but also increases cell fusion which helps existing muscles grow bigger and repair much faster.
This is a topic I found contradicting evidence on. For years people say you don't just get hypertrophy, you can also get hyperplasia - more evidence is coming forward indicating there may be a minor amount of cell hyperplasia, but the main benefit is fat loss and hypertrophy / cell fusion. Trying to follow all the info is only as good as who is spewing it out, so I take everything I hear from so called 'experts' with a grain of salt.

If you happen to get cancer cells which we all do, and the body has natural defences to rid the body of them, high IGF will help these 'bad cells' grow much faster, but it does not cause cancer or so I have led to believe to reading.

One way to combat hormone related cancers is to ensure you are getting a lot of indole-3-carboinol which crucierous vegetigables are loaded with. You can also buy it as a supplement, but I try to eat a lot of broccoli, asparagus, brussel sprouts, etc.

Take all this with as opinion and not fact. It is an opinion based on what I have read.
Three are many people here who are very knowledgeable and intelligent and may have a different perspective and more to add. @libo / @gondar1 - do either of you have an opinion of HCG/HGH and cancer?

A little bit off topic here so bear with me.

My only criticism towards the GH hyperplasia thing is why don't we see people have "permanent" gains if they made new cells? If a person grew new cells already why stay on it? At what point do new cells stop appearing?

I maintain my stance that GH doses in excess is likely a waste and has very little to do with muscle growth directly. If it did why not take it without insulin and other hormones? Yet someone can take a handful of dbol and it will help them grow, even insulin if they're deficient will make them grow.

It's always been the diet itself that's the biggest factor. Can't assimilate the food? The person wont grow or will even shrink. That makes insulin the key or a kind of governor in a sense IMO. *Not an endorsement to use it*

 

[gondar1]

HCG/HGH and cancer?

Afaik neither have ever been definitively proven to start a new cancer, not even really close. However there are enough associations with different hormones etc that I personally wouldn't be taking either if I had a cancer. High IGF levels for example act as you mentioned, some cancers move other hormone levels around (associations)

I don't use either, unless you count peps for GH stimulation so I've not looked into this in a long time. My opinion isn't probably worth mote than a quick google would be.

 

[Devson]

What are your goals? Do you want kids? You can raise your testosterone levels more safely just by taking clomid alone. If you just want to look ripped and lean and in shape then test alone or even just clomid will work if you do your diet and training right.

It's easier to lose fat and get shredded without desperately trying to hold onto muscle. It's so freaking brutal to do it if you're trying to hold onto more muscle than you can hold at naturally high test levels. Honestly I didn't have to know anything about advanced dieting and training programs to look lean and like I workout but am natural. Now being 230lbs probably around 18% bf but with abs and veins everywhere even on my stomach and chest. I almost have to basically cycle again in two months until I've held the muscle for well over a year. That's also with cruising at 200mg. That's with training hard and such.

 

[Redz]

What are your goals? Do you want kids? You can raise your testosterone levels more safely just by taking clomid alone. If you just want to look ripped and lean and in shape then test alone or even just clomid will work if you do your diet and training right.

It's easier to lose fat and get shredded without desperately trying to hold onto muscle. It's so freaking brutal to do it if you're trying to hold onto more muscle than you can hold at naturally high test levels. Honestly I didn't have to know anything about advanced dieting and training programs to look lean and like I workout but am natural. Now being 230lbs probably around 18% bf but with abs and veins everywhere even on my stomach and chest. I almost have to basically cycle again in two months until I've held the muscle for well over a year. That's also with cruising at 200mg. That's with training hard and such.

I’m yet to see anyone use clomid to get ripped

 

[Devson]

I’m yet to see anyone use clomid to get ripped

Have you seen how much leaner natural competitors get compared to AAS users these days? They look great and some of them don't even have top of the range test levels. Clomid is going to do the same thing true TRT will, maybe more considering some doctors won't let you get to the highest part of the range.

 

[CoolRick]

Have you seen how much leaner natural competitors get compared to AAS users these days? They look great and some of them don't even have top of the range test levels. Clomid is going to do the same thing true TRT will, maybe more considering some doctors won't let you get to the highest part of the range.

What's natural bodybuilding? With all the supplements and technology out there there's no such thing anymore.