Gun registry/ ban

[animal-inside]

I'm against it. I don't think it will have any effect on public safety. The truth is our rules for restricted firearms are already extremely stringent and for the most part act as a deterrent for people even obtaining a license unless they have a specific interest, such as target or competitive shooting.

We do have very strict rules and policies for fireamrs here. There are places that are more strict for sure.

Our strict laws however are simply not the reason for the gun violence and crime in our country though. Our legal gun owners are not the cause, reason or criminals commiting these crimes either

 

[Justin Credible]

We do have very strict rules and policies for fireamrs here. There are places that are more strict for sure.

Our strict laws however are simply not the reason for the gun violence and crime in our country though. Our legal gun owners are not the cause, reason or criminals commiting these crimes either

I agree, that's why I see no point in making the the laws more strict. Violent criminals are going to use what is available to them regardless. Look at Sweden, multiple grenade attacks have occurred and those are most certainly illegal.

 

[Bagua]

We do have very strict rules and policies for fireamrs here. There are places that are more strict for sure.

Our strict laws however are simply not the reason for the gun violence and crime in our country though. Our legal gun owners are not the cause, reason or criminals commiting these crimes either

What happens if a legal gun owner sells a gun on the black market and it's used in a crime? Does the legal gun owner then become an illegal gun owner? Obviously if he is convicted he does become a criminal.

 

[animal-inside]

What happens if a legal gun owner sells a gun on the black market and it's used in a crime? Does the legal gun owner then become an illegal gun owner? Obviously if he is convicted he does become a criminal.

This is a huge way that criminals get their hands on guns. However, from the stats/reports I have read only a very very very small portion of illegal guns came from legal Candian gun owners. Legal gun owners selling legal guns to criminals is more of a issue in the USA. Guns are also illegally smuggled into the Canadian black market from the USA.

point is, legal canadian gun owners are simply not selling guns to criminals. I honeslty think I read something like 0.5% of guns used in crimes were traced back to legal gun owners in Canada. Keep in mind all hand guns are strictly controlled, monitored and registered to the purchaser so any handgun in Canada can easily be traced back to its last owner via serial #, make, model, calibier

 

[Bagua]

This is a huge way that criminals get their hands on guns. However, from the stats/reports I have read only a very very very small portion of illegal guns came from legal Candian gun owners. Legal gun owners selling legal guns to criminals is more of a issue in the USA. Guns are also illegally smuggled into the Canadian black market from the USA.

point is, legal canadian gun owners are simply not selling guns to criminals. I honeslty think I read something like 0.5% of guns used in crimes were traced back to legal gun owners in Canada. Keep in mind all hand guns are strictly controlled, monitored and registered to the purchaser so any handgun in Canada can easily be traced back to its last owner via serial #, make, model, calibier

I thought that as well until I remembered an article I read about TO. It appears it does seem to be a problem. Take it for what it is worth.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/guns-domestic-danforth-shooting-toronto-1.4759159
https://firearmrights.ca/en/50-of-crime-guns-did-not-come-from-legal-gun-owners/

 

[animal-inside]

I recall reading something from the CBC like you posted on a firearms forum. Along with the CBC article was other stats confirming (in my eyes) that CBC is mis representing the facts.

I recall reading that the handguns that were orginally purchased leglly, but then landed in the hands on criminals were actually in fact mostly stolen from the legal owner. Yes a few were legally bought and then illegally sold.

I honestly have a hard time swallowing that any legal hand gun owner in Canada would even try to sell a handgun illegally. It's insanely controlled here that if that gun is used in a crime it WILL be traced back to you. Of course you can grind the main serial number off or report it stolen after you sell it, but unless your going to do this with say 20 hand guns, it won't be worth your time for several reasons. 1) If you report a handgun as stolen, expect to prove that it was stored properly. Its pretty hard to steal a hand gun if stored properly. The thief would need to either remove a large safe from a house or grind/cut through the safe. Odds are if your handgun is stolen you have a good chance of being charged for improper storage and loose all your guns and your liscence to buy them. 2) By having a lisence to buy handguns, you are automatically getting a microsope on your purchases. So if you decide to buy 20 hand guns for the purposes of illegally selling them your home has a good chance of being inspected by the firearms officer in your area/rcmp.

Its so tightly controlled here (handguns) that once your in the know about the laws surronding them you can see how absurb it would be to have someone selling a bunch illegally.

The USA does not keep track of handgun owners nor keep track of the serial numbers of the guns that you buy. It's been proven their laws are easily abused to benefit people with bad intentions.

I should add, I'm very open to stricter laws (that are reasonable and make sense) about proper firearm storage. One law might be, if you own handguns you must have a alarm of sorts. I'm just thinking out loud.

 

[animal-inside]

I should add the article states "over 40 cases in recent years" when reffereing to instances where legal gun owners sold hand guns illegally.


So 40 cases in recent years??? Recent years could mean 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 years etc... Lets say 40 cases in 4 years.. So of the hundreds of thousands of legal hand gun owners, we need to have handguns banned because 10 cases a year where someone sold a handgun illegally???

Again my arugment, why not make it mandatory that vehicles come equiped with a device that blocks cell reception/data inside the car so that we never have a death due to distracted drviing again despite the fact that the majority of cell owners use them responsibly.

 

[Bagua]

I recall reading something from the CBC like you posted on a firearms forum. Along with the CBC article was other stats confirming (in my eyes) that CBC is mis representing the facts.

I recall reading that the handguns that were orginally purchased leglly, but then landed in the hands on criminals were actually in fact mostly stolen from the legal owner. Yes a few were legally bought and then illegally sold.

I honestly have a hard time swallowing that any legal hand gun owner in Canada would even try to sell a handgun illegally. It's insanely controlled here that if that gun is used in a crime it WILL be traced back to you. Of course you can grind the main serial number off or report it stolen after you sell it, but unless your going to do this with say 20 hand guns, it won't be worth your time for several reasons. 1) If you report a handgun as stolen, expect to prove that it was stored properly. Its pretty hard to steal a hand gun if stored properly. The thief would need to either remove a large safe from a house or grind/cut through the safe. Odds are if your handgun is stolen you have a good chance of being charged for improper storage and loose all your guns and your liscence to buy them. 2) By having a lisence to buy handguns, you are automatically getting a microsope on your purchases. So if you decide to buy 20 hand guns for the purposes of illegally selling them your home has a good chance of being inspected by the firearms officer in your area/rcmp.

Its so tightly controlled here (handguns) that once your in the know about the laws surronding them you can see how absurb it would be to have someone selling a bunch illegally.

The USA does not keep track of handgun owners nor keep track of the serial numbers of the guns that you buy. It's been proven their laws are easily abused to benefit people with bad intentions.

I should add, I'm very open to stricter laws (that are reasonable and make sense) about proper firearm storage. One law might be, if you own handguns you must have a alarm of sorts. I'm just thinking out loud.

That's why I posted the Gun Lobby article with the CBC/ Global article. There are some discrepancies in the article such as the 40 in recent years followed with one man sold 47.
Everyone I know that owns a hand gun (these days) is military and they are very tight with there safes. An alarm would be a good idea, or a big dog.

 

[Bagua]

I should add the article states "over 40 cases in recent years" when reffereing to instances where legal gun owners sold hand guns illegally.


So 40 cases in recent years??? Recent years could mean 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 years etc... Lets say 40 cases in 4 years.. So of the hundreds of thousands of legal hand gun owners, we need to have handguns banned because 10 cases a year where someone sold a handgun illegally???

Again my arugment, why not make it mandatory that vehicles come equiped with a device that blocks cell reception/data inside the car so that we never have a death due to distracted drviing again despite the fact that the majority of cell owners use them responsibly.

Perhaps we should have something that is only activated when the phone is inserted into an accessory in the vehicle?

 

[animal-inside]

That's why I posted the Gun Lobby article with the CBC/ Global article. There are some discrepancies in the article such as the 40 in recent years followed with one man sold 47.
Everyone I know that owns a hand gun (these days) is military and they are very tight with there safes. An alarm would be a good idea, or a big dog.

I didn't catch the discrepency between the articles.. I saw CBC and from my experiences I just assume its politally motivated not fact motivated and I just need to dig to find the bending of stats in their articles lol.... CBC is one of the worst news media for being politically charged.

I think a house alarm for handgun owners is smart, but its also imposing a new law expensive to gun owners without really invesitgating how many hand guns are actually stolen? Maybe its not a significant amount. Or maybe most of the handgun thefts are in big cities so it might make sense to have it a bylaw in a big city with lots of hand gun theft instead of federal law. Again, I'm going to guess there's not many hand gun thefts period so its probably a mute point in reality.


All this talk reminds me of a Simpsons episode where Homer buys a rock because he's told it keeps away elaphants lol...


It's been brought up many times though, new laws don't really have impacts on criminals. Consequences, education, proper upbrining and good families are the meat and potatoes of making an impact.

 

[Bagua]

I didn't catch the discrepency between the articles.. I saw CBC and from my experiences I just assume its politally motivated not fact motivated and I just need to dig to find the bending of stats in their articles lol.... CBC is one of the worst news media for being politically charged.

I think a house alarm for handgun owners is smart, but its also imposing a new law expensive to gun owners without really invesitgating how many hand guns are actually stolen? Maybe its not a significant amount. Or maybe most of the handgun thefts are in big cities so it might make sense to have it a bylaw in a big city with lots of hand gun theft instead of federal law. Again, I'm going to guess there's not many hand gun thefts period so its probably a mute point in reality.


All this talk reminds me of a Simpsons episode where Homer buys a rock because he's told it keeps away elaphants lol...


It's been brought up many times though, new laws don't really have impacts on criminals. Consequences, education, proper upbrining and good families are the meat and potatoes of making an impact.

I can agree with you on this one (with the exception of consequences) but unfortunately all of these points can be dramatically impacted by poverty, and social pressure of a neighborhood.
As far as extra cost goes for a handgun owner to install an alarm, it can be justified simply by the fact with having a handgun comes extra responsibility for safety. A friend of mine spent $600 on just one of his handguns, therefore the extra cost of an alarm would not be exorbitant. You're not poverty stricken if you can purchase a handgun. Sort of like all the years when the auto industry was stating extra safety was too expensive but when push came to shove they had the technology on hand already.
I have no objections to anyone wanting to own a gun, but we must remember it is not a right in Canada but a privilege. With this privilege can come cost.
This is an interesting one: https://ipolitics.ca/2018/07/23/more-than-23000-handguns-registered-in-toronto-rcmp/

 

[Shrek]

A house alarm is important to have regardless of the firearms you may own. security cameras too as theyre not really expensive anymore.

Im sure a lot of us have a decent stash of gear and other things that we'd be inclined to protect, and if an alarm would deter a potential thief or scare away a thief in the act then its worth the expense. Id be real pissed if some a-hole took my new boots, or my snowboard, or my Vitamix, let alone a firearm.

$600 on a handgun is nothing. Ive got a friend that drops multiple times that. He just got a Cabot Commander 1911. Thats 4k USD! The guy is nuts and admits it, but its more art collecting for him at this point. Needless to say his home is like Fort Knox.

 

[animal-inside]

I can agree with you on this one (with the exception of consequences) but unfortunately all of these points can be dramatically impacted by poverty, and social pressure of a neighborhood.
As far as extra cost goes for a handgun owner to install an alarm, it can be justified simply by the fact with having a handgun comes extra responsibility for safety. A friend of mine spent $600 on just one of his handguns, therefore the extra cost of an alarm would not be exorbitant. You're not poverty stricken if you can purchase a handgun. Sort of like all the years when the auto industry was stating extra safety was too expensive but when push came to shove they had the technology on hand already.
I have no objections to anyone wanting to own a gun, but we must remember it is not a right in Canada but a privilege. With this privilege can come cost.
This is an interesting one: https://ipolitics.ca/2018/07/23/more-than-23000-handguns-registered-in-toronto-rcmp/

$600 for a handgun? Holy, thats cheap lol!!!!! Honestly that is an inexpensive handguns. I own a couple that cost 600$, but I seareched long and hard for a used handgun for those prices. My fvorite handgun cost $1800 and even then, thats not considered an overly expensive one.

I get your point about it not being a unresonable expectation to install an alarm, but I think there needs to be a minium cheap alarm that needs to be installed. Something like a very loud alarm if the house door is opened. Not something that requires you to pay a monthly fee/ huge instalation costs.

We had a basic alarm set up this summer that has door/window sensor, front door camera/ connected to call centre so if alarm is set off police are called right away. It was free instalation, but 80$ monthly fee for 5 year contract (no way out of the contract once you sign). So $4800 over 5 years. That's asking a lot for someone if they wish to own a handgun. I did get a home insurance reduction, but there is still a bill every month.

Like I said a basic alarm on the house doors that isn't connected to a alamr company should cost a few hundred bucks, but its a one time cost.

 

[Bagua]

$600 for a handgun? Holy, thats cheap lol!!!!! Honestly that is an inexpensive handguns. I own a couple that cost 600$, but I seareched long and hard for a used handgun for those prices. My fvorite handgun cost $1800 and even then, thats not considered an overly expensive one.

I get your point about it not being a unresonable expectation to install an alarm, but I think there needs to be a minium cheap alarm that needs to be installed. Something like a very loud alarm if the house door is opened. Not something that requires you to pay a monthly fee/ huge instalation costs.

We had a basic alarm set up this summer that has door/window sensor, front door camera/ connected to call centre so if alarm is set off police are called right away. It was free instalation, but 80$ monthly fee for 5 year contract (no way out of the contract once you sign). So $4800 over 5 years. That's asking a lot for someone if they wish to own a handgun. I did get a home insurance reduction, but there is still a bill every month.

Like I said a basic alarm on the house doors that isn't connected to a alamr company should cost a few hundred bucks, but its a one time cost.

He has all kinds of toys and he gets a military discount when he buys. That's all I know.
I have a friend who makes some really cool Filipino swords, but for me to spend $600 on a sword would be way too much. It's not like I'm walking through the jungles of Mindanao pre-WW2.
This is what I am saving my pennies for:
https://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/shop/binakuko-janap-kambantuli-and-pinsawali-sword-set/

 

[animal-inside]

He has all kinds of toys and he gets a military discount when he buys. That's all I know.
I have a friend who makes some really cool Filipino swords, but for me to spend $600 on a sword would be way too much. It's not like I'm walking through the jungles of Mindanao pre-WW2.
This is what I am saving my pennies for:
https://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/shop/binakuko-janap-kambantuli-and-pinsawali-sword-set/

I know lots of people collect swords, daggers, fancy kinves etc.. I dont see the appeal in it myself. I do own a few med-high end knives, but they serve a purpose such as skinning. Its worth the money to buy a good knife if you use them feequently to me, but to spend a ton of money or collect knives that are just decoration makes no sense to me. Thats just me though.

Perhaps you use your swords though..

Maybe.... this is you?

 

[animal-inside]

 

[Bagua]

Lmao!

I train with mine. A different blade every workout. The sticks are just a stand in for the sword and Espada Y Daga is sword and knife which is actually pretty complicated to learn.

 

[animal-inside]

Here's a good place to start to try to lower the gun violence in Canada

https://canoe.com/news/local-news/t...der/wcm/9802581c-633d-4427-bd77-0c00f9687b607


Life with no chance of parole sounds good to me. Seems harsh, but 25 illegal guns are going to commit multiple gun crimes each. Murder, robbery, drug protection, drive by's, assault etc... 25 illegal guns could easily be used in 25 shootings. This woman knew exactly what would happen with these guns. Life in jail.

Sadly, she's a woman and this is Canada.. probably 2 years probation

 

[REK]

I have both hand guns and rifles. The issue is that those who commit these public shootings aren't usually the ones who actually have proper training and a license. My handguns are all registered of course and my 3 sons are very well trained in using a firearm safely. People kill people, guns are just an avenue to do so, just like a vehicle or a knife or whatever. Some control over semi-automatic weapons is good, and I don't feel the need for full auto by any means, accuracy sucks anyways!!

Cheers REK

 

[animal-inside]

I have both hand guns and rifles. The issue is that those who commit these public shootings aren't usually the ones who actually have proper training and a license. My handguns are all registered of course and my 3 sons are very well trained in using a firearm safely. People kill people, guns are just an avenue to do so, just like a vehicle or a knife or whatever. Some control over semi-automatic weapons is good, and I don't feel the need for full auto by any means, accuracy sucks anyways!!

Cheers REK

I agree except when it comes to semi auto matic. It's just a non argument to me to say a semi auto is going to take more lives if someone has ill intent.

Honestly, a 12 gauge pump with buck shot and a big ass magazine has insane potential to mass kill.


Most ppl need to grab a hand gun and try to hit a target from 25 yards away lol.....

99% of peopple couldn;t hit a human size target 30 yards away with a hand gun..

If I had to be in a shopping mail with a mass shooter, I would EASILY prefer the shooter to have a semi auto pistol. I wouldn't have any fear of being hit unless I was within 25 yards lol.... And b/c its a semi, odds are the guy will dump the whole clip in less than 3 mins leaving him useless.

Compared to a 12 gauge pump... most ppl can pick up a 12 gauge and with 5 mins of practice would be able to hit a human size target with in 50 yards 9 out of 10 times.