Estrogen on TRT/ Cruise

CosmicJuiceBoxx

CosmicJuiceBoxx

Large psychonaught
Trusted Member
For the guys who do bloodwork here, mostly TRT but do share regardless - the more the better.
a) what is your test dosage?
b) what is your estradiol at that dosage?
c) are you taking any AI to achieve this E2 result?
d) how do you feel at this E2 level?

I've been on 100mg test Cyp a week for 2 over two years and my E2 has JUST been checked for the first time.
115 pmol/L
Says the reference range should be under 160 pmol/L but from other reading it says around 40 is ideal.
I've never used AI on my TRT, doc said it wasn't needed.
I've gone to a real hormone clinic and they have run the full panel and I just seen this now.
Lmao maybe I'm prone to mood swings and negative thinking because my E2 has been almost 3x higher than it should be?

Don't feel the need to respond in a,b,c format.
Lookin forward to some shares in here.

Edit: Ive seen somewhere it was either YT or a forum that said a good spot to aim for E2 is 10% of your T level, not sure if it was total or free? Any input on this one?
 
110mg/week, 2 shots per week.
Pin Sunday night blood draw Thursday morning test levels 31.

Adex 0.25mg twice per week estrogen 40 and I feel fantastic.

I tried without Adex and had the same levels as you. Didn’t feel better especially sex drive but my knees felt way stronger when squatting so I guess they were full of water.
 
I am on 100ish per week (44mg every 3 days)

My e2 bounce between 95-105 pmol. I feel very good there.

I don’t take an ai. I have tried it on trt and even a quarter of an adex tab 6.25 dropped my E2 to 13 pmol after six weeks. And that sucked.

At 40 pmo I suspect you’d be feeling low E2 symptoms. When i took dhea my E2 would drop to 55 and i felt meh. With E2 in that range you likely are not getting the heart protective benefit of oestrogen either.

Unless you’re having water retention and high blood pressure or gyno, I’d leave it alone. If you wanted to drop e2 a little bit, just increase the pinning frequency
 
On 100mg test C per week
Pin Tues and Fri mornings
Blood drawn Mon morn

First 3 month checkup showed free test 803 but e2 at 220! I definitely was holding some water and my weight was going up along with some irritability. No spicy nips. I'm in decent shape probably around 15% (still can see abs) but I guess I convert a lot.

Science and humans RN started me on a quarter pill (I think it's 0.25mg) Arimidex taken twice a week day after my shot.
Haven't had follow up bloodwork yet as it hasn't even been 2 weeks but I do feel better mentally and I dropped a few lbs which I assume is mostly fluid.

I asked if I needed bloodwork sooner than the next 3 month checkup and the answer was no.... but I may go through my naturopath to do my own at about 6 weeks to see where it's at.

For reference pre TRT my free test was 210 and my E2 was 51 but I felt like shit at that point.

The RN even tried to push HCG on me but from what I've read that's only going to drive my E2 higher. I would like to try it as about 6-8 weeks into TRT I felt amazing and then it kind of slid off, likely when my natty production slowed/stopped. I said I'd like to see where the AI gets my levels to before we start adding more.
 
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Approx 100 mg a week. I say approx. as sometimes I take a little more but when my blood tests were drawn I was at 100 mg/week.

On 100 mg a week my test is at the very top of the range or just over by a few points. My estrogen in averaging around 80 pmol/l up or down a little. I feel great.
I haven't used an AI in my life or a SERM (sort of a lie lol). That is in 15 years anyway - there was a point when my friend got me HGH (script) to go with my TRT and I forever had erect nipples and extremely sensitive but no Gyno. I did not get blood work done but took a small dose of Arimidex (UGL he got for me which I think may have been water as it did nil) and it didn't help. It settles down but I tend to have sensitive nipples anyway - just no gyno issues.
I use HCG as I prefer to keep the boys working somewhat or not shrinking to raisins. It has zero impact on my estrogen numbers and I am using script HCG so it isn't the HCG. The only difference is M, W, F 250-500 mcg's of HCG makes me significantly more interested in sex albeit without it I still have a decent sex drive but no balls lol - it is like they are hiding somewhere and if your a woman looking for them - good luck finding them.

I was looking at all my tests and see the tests I paid for with when I was also taking 150 mg of Primo and my free test was off the charts and my estrogen was a little lower but not much.
I felt great - huge increase in sex drive and overall felt better.

Good luck
 
Some guys might run better at higher end estrogen, I don't touch a.i unless I'm on a cycle and my trt is 150mg.
 
CoolRick said:
No script for trt but 200mg/ week test cyp or 150mg test cyp/ week + 250-500iu HCG 3x per week gets me feeling like my pre gear 27 year old self. No need for an AI here.

I have no idea about the levels I go by feel.
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My GP has not tested my levels in two years. After a decade of testing, she’s OK with me just going by feel and then monitoring the normal blood panels.
 
CosmicJuiceBoxx said:
Says the reference range should be under 160 pmol/L but from other reading it says around 40 is ideal.
Are you mixing units of measure up? These would be awfully close - endmemo.com

Edit: Ive seen somewhere it was either YT or a forum that said a good spot to aim for E2 is 10% of your T level, not sure if it was total or free? Any input on this one?
Click to expand...
I see this 10% referenced occasionally too. There are problems with the statement IMO.
First - by what measure? Meaning unit of measure. IOW how are they compared? And yes TT or FT?
Second - "You need estrogen to grow bro" True, estrogen does crucial things but ratioing it to T doesn't make sense to me. But how much?
Certainly at least part of the answer is "adequate amount to meet requirements" Those requirements IN A MAN are pretty easy to meet apparently. Hard to quantify on a case to case basis, studies are lacking for good reason. To add to that point most E studies are centered around women so you have to be careful interpreting them because comparisons can not be direct.

IIRC in mice it's not hard to show the effects of zero E (very negative), in female humans it's not hard to show the positives of balancing it into a sweet spot and the negs of being too high or two low. But I don't think anyone has done any work that nailed down an optimal level for muscle growth. If you only need an ounce then why would you shoot for a gallon considering the side effects.

Here is the big one - Both below or above the range of 20-30 pg/ml of E2 the associated rate of all-cause mortality takes off like crazy. To be fair to that statement the numbers show more harm when too low that too high. Too low can be easily defined though - 0 to 20 whereas to high could be 30 to infinity. And the sides are different above and below.

I've also heard the arguement that you want it high to protect your heart (especially on cycle they argue). Keeping in mind that cardiac and skeletal muscle tissue are not the same thing, and that men generally seem to be able to reach E2 requirements readily it does not make sense to me to have it run higher than that. IF, and this is a big IF E continues to protect the heart and improve overall CV function with no limit to high E levels that's great for the CV system of course but if the other neg effects from the excess E take you out that's not gonna matter much.

You can drop a Top Fuel Motor in a Pinto but you ain't going far if that results in an blown transmission.

I forgot your first question. sorry. On between 125-140T per week my E2 stays in range of 20-30 pg/ml with no AI. I have not had my E tested in a few years but I probably should. I have had tons of BW tho so I use that experience plus the onset of a gyno flair to tell me if I'm high. Been on straight TRT at 120 for a while now, gonna try adding Mast at about 150% of T instead of an AI next time I slowly ramp up to low cycle dose.
 
Not to sidetrack the thread, but has anybody seen differences with script 200/ biweekly as opposed to 100/weekly cyp.
 
Jabroni said:
Not to sidetrack the thread, but has anybody seen differences with script 200/ biweekly as opposed to 100/weekly cyp.
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I have a friend who is a trans man and he uses only 85 test c biweekly. It keeps him from having a menstrual cycle and enough to have masculine effects, they have a high sex drive one week and lower the next. This is the only person I know who does biweekly injections of test c. I inject 2x weekly because it keeps levels more stable.
 
I have never in my life used an AI, if your cycle is designed well you probably shouldn't need one. Also if your test is high it's probably healthy for e2 to be a bit high also as long as you're not developing gyno. Doctors here in Canada would likely rather dial back your test than give an AI for trt.
 
Jabroni said:
Not to sidetrack the thread, but has anybody seen differences with script 200/ biweekly as opposed to 100/weekly cyp.
Click to expand...
yep, spiked my E. Gyno pain for months, long after the excess E is gone. Main reason I up the frequency. EOD, E3D or E4D. 60mg of TE at once is near max to avoid gyno flare for me so 60 E3D is the most common proto that ends up being used for a total of 140/week. Anymore than that total I need an AI to avoid gyno regardless of any dosing proto other than daily.
Going to see if I can get Mast to effectively play that role for me. I've heard in passing that Mast may act in more the manner of locking up receptors than actually lowering E which makes sense as it was designed for breast cancer protection. Never tried that approach so got curious. Starting today at 51mgTE plus 76 Mast (EDIT)-*E3D. 119T/177M Ratio is 1:1.5. . As training ramps up I'll try slowly creeping those up at that ratio. Not strictly though, any sides or other variation could see me change on the fly.
 
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Negan said:
I have a friend who is a trans man and he uses only 85 test c biweekly. It keeps him from having a menstrual cycle and enough to have masculine effects, they have a high sex drive one week and lower the next. This is the only person I know who does biweekly injections of test c. I inject 2x weekly because it keeps levels more stable.
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Well I’m not sure how I could relate my TRT to this person as we have different needs ; but I was just able to formally change my script to 100/wk instead of the bi weekly schedule I was on. I haven’t actually ran my proper TRT dose for a bit now; but since I got pretty sick during my cycle I had to recently scrap it 1/3 of the way through and I’m going back to my TRT dose for a bit.
 
gondar1 said:
I see this 10% referenced occasionally too. There are problems with the statement IMO.
First - by what measure? Meaning unit of measure. IOW how are they compared? And yes TT or FT?
Second - "You need estrogen to grow bro" True, estrogen does crucial things but ratioing it to T doesn't make sense to me. But how much?
Certainly at least part of the answer is "adequate amount to meet requirements" Those requirements IN A MAN are pretty easy to meet apparently. Hard to quantify on a case to case basis, studies are lacking for good reason. To add to that point most E studies are centered around women so you have to be careful interpreting them because comparisons can not be direct.

IIRC in mice it's not hard to show the effects of zero E (very negative), in female humans it's not hard to show the positives of balancing it into a sweet spot and the negs of being too high or two low. But I don't think anyone has done any work that nailed down an optimal level for muscle growth. If you only need an ounce then why would you shoot for a gallon considering the side effects.

Here is the big one - Both below or above the range of 20-30 pg/ml of E2 the associated rate of all-cause mortality takes off like crazy. To be fair to that statement the numbers show more harm when too low that too high. Too low can be easily defined though - 0 to 20 whereas to high could be 30 to infinity. And the sides are different above and below.

I've also heard the arguement that you want it high to protect your heart (especially on cycle they argue). Keeping in mind that cardiac and skeletal muscle tissue are not the same thing, and that men generally seem to be able to reach E2 requirements readily it does not make sense to me to have it run higher than that. IF, and this is a big IF E continues to protect the heart and improve overall CV function with no limit to high E levels that's great for the CV system of course but if the other neg effects from the excess E take you out that's not gonna matter much.

You can drop a Top Fuel Motor in a Pinto but you ain't going far if that results in an blown transmission.

I forgot your first question. sorry. On between 125-140T per week my E2 stays in range of 20-30 pg/ml with no AI. I have not had my E tested in a few years but I probably should. I have had tons of BW tho so I use that experience plus the onset of a gyno flair to tell me if I'm high. Been on straight TRT at 120 for a while now, gonna try adding Mast at about 150% of T instead of an AI next time I slowly ramp up to low cycle dose.
Click to expand...


13-42 pg/ml / 48-154 pmol/L

​

These are the ranges in the different units. But what I had read was the 40pmol* range was better and not 40pg* as they would be opposite ends of the ranges. On high, other lower.
The Dr had said he will give me an AI and some HCG. Not for fertility. But because this is and all time low for nut size lol fam Dr told me if you don't want small balls come off the T.
Hirmine clinic is the way to go to get dialed in.
I just found a blood lab in calgary too that is private with modest prices so ai can do my own labs outside of theirs.
 
CosmicJuiceBoxx said:
13-42 pg/ml / 48-154 pmol/L

​

These are the ranges in the different units. But what I had read was the 40pmol* range was better and not 40pg* as they would be opposite ends of the ranges. On high, other lower.
Click to expand...
I'm glad you have a handle on that, at certain levels they can get easy to confuse especially as different countries often use different units. Sometimes an article gets written without showing the units which could cause issues. FWIW where you are at 115 pmol/L is great that's 31.xxpg/ml, damn near perfect i agree you don't need an AI there. HCG can jump it up though so best keep an eye out if you decide to get on it.
My concern and questioning was the line "Says the reference range should be under 160 pmol/L but from other reading it says around 40 is ideal." That might catch someone not on the ball as you if it were mixed up. If by any chance you recall where you saw someone saying 40 pmol/L was ideal please link it. I'll resist going into lecture mode but as i mentioned above there are damn near literal mountains of evidence saying that's dangerously low so for my own piece of mind I'd like to see how they justify that, maybe I'll learn something along the way.
 
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