EQ and elbow pain

matt55

matt55

Well-known member
Trusted Member
ive been taking 600 mgs of EQ for around 15 weeks now,along with 800 test e and 100 tren e, with 25mgs anadrol daily for the past 5 weeks,now im at my all time strongest,but now my elbows are so dry and hurt so bad i can hardly press or do extentions,would dropping the EQ and adding low dose deca in help,cause i plan on going up with the tren,is deca at a low dose and tren at say,200-300 mgs weekly really so bad if the prolactin is controlled,i already kinda know the answer,just wondering what you guys would do?
 
matt55 said:
ive been taking 600 mgs of EQ for around 15 weeks now,along with 800 test e and 100 tren e, with 25mgs anadrol daily for the past 5 weeks,now im at my all time strongest,but now my elbows are so dry and hurt so bad i can hardly press or do extentions,would dropping the EQ and adding low dose deca in help,cause i plan on going up with the tren,is deca at a low dose and tren at say,200-300 mgs weekly really so bad if the prolactin is controlled,i already kinda know the answer,just wondering what you guys would do?
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Is it tendonitis? I'm in a similar boat. I've read lots about tendons not keeping up with muscle growth.
 
643dpb said:
Is it tendonitis? I'm in a similar boat. I've read lots about tendons not keeping up with muscle growth.
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i believe it could be, cause the size came really fast,does deca help this problem,its the worst feeling ive ever felt,feels like i fell on both elbows,theyre so tender ,it sucks
 
matt55 said:
i believe it could be, cause the size came really fast,does deca help this problem,its the worst feeling ive ever felt,feels like i fell on both elbows,theyre so tender ,it sucks
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Yep I've got the same, last year I had it lateral (outer elbows), now it's medial (inner). With lateral I couldn't even grip anything. I've read that Deca/NPP can help to lubricate joints and relieve the pain, but I'm not sure if it promotes healing or actual tendon repair, maybe someone else could chime in on that?
 
Redz said:
Do you think maybe your e2 is crushed?
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that could be it too,i take 800 test e a week,but the EQ does have those propertys ,it just happend so fast,its intense, my nips are sensitive lol i need blood work,my appointments in 3 weeks,everythin went outta wack all of a sudden
 
Most likely negligible assistance from deca use here.

Tendonitis from over work on connective tissue. Most likely rooted in getting too strong, too fast.

Need to solve the inflammation issue.

Deca can provide some level of relief to older dry joints as it increases synovial fluid.

Its merits are generally wildly exaggerated and also generally parroted conjecture than proven fact.

Always start at the most likely underlying cause or causes rather than spitball potentials that are far less likely based on the information you know. I state this based on what you've shared to this point.

Tendonitis can be absolutely debilitating and if not addressed can lead to long term issues that require a ton of effort to resolve and result in frustrating - one step forward, two steps back road to recovery.

If you address this properly, the road to recovery will be much shorter than fucking about with it.
 
643dpb said:
Yep I've got the same, last year I had it lateral (outer elbows), now it's medial (inner). With lateral I couldn't even grip anything. I've read that Deca/NPP can help to lubricate joints and relieve the pain, but I'm not sure if it promotes healing or actual tendon repair, maybe someone else could chime in on that?
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EQ never did this to me before,but ive never gotten this strong all at once either,man its hard to do anything,its terrible
 
biguglynewf said:
Most likely negligible assistance from deca use here.

Tendinitis from over work on connective tissue. Most likely rooted in getting too strong, too fast.

Need to solve the inflammation issue.

Deca can provide some level of relief to older dry joints as it increases synovial fluid.

Its merits are generally wildly exaggerated and also generally parroted conjecture than proven fact.
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ya im jumping to conclusions here,its so bad i just want relief,blood work it is.this is a great cycle though lol i dont wanna stop it
 
biguglynewf said:
Most likely negligible assistance from deca use here.

Tendinitis from over work on connective tissue. Most likely rooted in getting too strong, too fast.

Need to solve the inflammation issue.

Deca can provide some level of relief to older dry joints as it increases synovial fluid.

Its merits are generally wildly exaggerated and also generally parroted conjecture than proven fact.
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Would you have any suggestions to relieve the inflammation aside from the usual NSAIDS?
 
643dpb said:
Would you have any suggestions to relieve the inflammation aside from the usual NSAIDS?
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Getting set with a good physio or sports ART is your best bet. Rest and training around the issue will no doubt be required in your case. Chronic tendonitis that never goes away is usually due to muscle imbalances. You'll feel like you have then kicked....then they resurface for what seems like unexplainable reasons. This could be the case....but based on what you said....gains came very fast and the drugs you were taking ....its sounds like the best place to start is looking at the strength gain....and work from there.

Nsaids help reduce inflammation.... however if you continue to inflame the tissue....their use is relatively pointless....band aid at best.

You need to address cause...not treat symptoms.
 
biguglynewf said:
Getting set with a good physio or sports ART is your best bet. Rest and training around the issue will no doubt be required in your case. Chronic tendonitis that never goes away is usually due to muscle imbalances. You'll feel like you have then kicked....then they resurface for what seems like unexplainable reasons. This could be the case....but based on what you said....gains came very fast and the drugs you were taking ....its sounds like the best place to start is looking at the strength gain....and work from there.

Nsaids help reduce inflammation.... however if you continue to inflame the tissue....their use is relatively pointless....band aid at best.

You need to address cause...not treat symptoms.
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your right,just when i was starting to enjoy myself too,thanks for the imput man
 
It can be enough to drive you absolutely crazy.

My worst chronic case that I would resolve then reappear on and off for years almost had me formed.....

Bilateral tendonitis.....almost always medial epicondylitis or "golfers elbow" ie pain on the inner elbow...but then sometimes lateral epicondylitis or "tennis elbow" ie pain on outer elbow.

I believed it was caused from press movements....because...that makes sense, right? Mostly but not always apparently.....

After a very long time of believing it was pressing movements and making numerous adjustments and workarounds which apparently solved the issues until they would reappear....even when i had completely stopped such movements.

Again....almost institutionalized over it...lol...

Then one day I came across a video on the boards posted by a member that had been done by Ed Coan.....and it changed my life...well...kinda sorta

My shoulder flexibility from years of training and not putting in the work to remain mobile had become ridiculously poor.

So much so....that when I was completing back squats, I was putting an incredible amount of strain on my elbows. So much so....it was squatting that was the cause of this elbow issue.

Once I stopped squatting my elbows recovered. Coupling that with improving my shoulder flexibility longer term and making adjustments to my hand placement.....I've never had an issue again.

It never occurred to me that it was the squats rooted in terrible flexibility that could be the cause....smarter folks than I most definitely would have been able to figure this out much earlier...but it took years of suffering through that one step forward, two step back cyclical frustration that almost made me give up entirely before I found clarity.

I was so hyperfocused on what I thought it HAD to be, I didnt have the ability to look outside the box that i had created.

If I had of been more aware and open minded.....I probably could have solved the root cause of this muck quicker....I mean....I knew my shoulder flexibility was horrible...to the point where reaching back to secure the bar wasnt exactly easy....and I could feel it in my elbows....but....I was completely blind to it. No one that I ever worked with figured it out either.....and if I never saw that video....I may have never sorted it out.

I suppose the point of it all is this....pay attention, dont neglect pain....know the difference between hurting and pain....start with the most reasonable or rational starting points....give them time to resolve....but dont be set and keep doubling down on things that dont provide long term resolution....if it doesn't....you're probably not getting to true root cause.....and if you dont get to root cause and address it there....it will continue to come back....and you will lose your marbles in frustration.

Maybe this wasnt a mystery to some or even many folks here....but it haunted me for a very long time.....and was a significant learning moment for me....hopefully this long winded post is beneficial to some and not just boring and pointless. It is helps one single person....I'll count that as a win. Lol.
 
biguglynewf said:
It can be enough to drive you absolutely crazy.

My worst chronic case that I would resolve then reappear on and off for years almost had me formed.....

Bilateral tendonitis.....almost always medial epicondylitis or "golfers elbow" ie pain on the inner elbow...but then sometimes lateral epicondylitis or "tennis elbow" ie pain on outer elbow.

I believed it was caused from press movements....because...that makes sense, right? Mostly but not always apparently.....

After a very long time of believing it was pressing movements and making numerous adjustments and workarounds which apparently solved the issues until they would reappear....even when i had completely stopped such movements.

Again....almost institutionalized over it...lol...

Then one day I came across a video on the boards posted by a member that had been done by Ed Coan.....and it changed my life...well...kinda sorta

My shoulder flexibility from years of training and not putting in the work to remain mobile had become ridiculously poor.

So much so....that when I was completing back squats, I was putting an incredible amount of strain on my elbows. So much so....it was squatting that was the cause of this elbow issue.

Once I stopped squatting my elbows recovered. Coupling that with improving my shoulder flexibility longer term and making adjustments to my hand placement.....I've never had an issue again.

It never occurred to me that it was the squats rooted in terrible flexibility that could be the cause....smarter folks than I most definitely would have been able to figure this out much earlier...but it took years of suffering through that one step forward, two step back cyclical frustration that almost made me give up entirely before I found clarity.

I was so hyperfocused on what I thought it HAD to be, I didnt have the ability to look outside the box that i had created.

If I had of been more aware and open minded.....I probably could have solved the root cause of this muck quicker....I mean....I knew my shoulder flexibility was horrible...to the point where reaching back to secure the bar wasnt exactly easy....and I could feel it in my elbows....but....I was completely blind to it. No one that I ever worked with figured it out either.....and if I never saw that video....I may have never sorted it out.

I suppose the point of it all is this....pay attention, dont neglect pain....know the difference between hurting and pain....start with the most reasonable or rational starting points....give them time to resolve....but dont be set and keep doubling down on things that dont provide long term resolution....if it doesn't....you're probably not getting to true root cause.....and if you dont get to root cause and address it there....it will continue to come back....and you will lose your marbles in frustration.

Maybe this wasnt a mystery to some or even many folks here....but it haunted me for a very long time.....and was a significant learning moment for me....hopefully this long winded post is beneficial to some and not just boring and pointless. It is helps one single person....I'll count that as a win. Lol.
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That's really crazy, I feel that immense elbow stress while squatting too, it's tough to reach back and get hands on the bar. What did you do to resolve your shoulder tightness?
 
Re 3 Test and tendon troubles insights;
The bro science sounding wrap up is correct "your muscles get stronger faster than your tendons do".
Slightly more sciency addition and supporting factor to that is that muscles have a much much better blood supply than tendons so your tendons remodel very slowly in comparison.
Deeper science is that depending on how you want to look at it their are 2-4 main types of collagen that make up tendons.
The two most important are Type I and Type III. Type I makes up almost all of the structure of muscle tendons. With the use of excessive dosing of exogenous T the remodeling emphasis shifts away from it's normal balance and leans production further towards type III which is more brittle than Type I. Unfortunately Type III production also takes a big leap when repairing injuries which I would think includes the mini and micro traumas we accept as part of training. A double whammy.
And seeing as it is the question of the OP - AAS choice makes a difference to tendon remodeling too. For the reasons above as well as many other factors/mechanisms.
In an attempt to keep it short to my understanding a short sum might look roughly like the following. I'm attempting best to worst but their are important nuances especially about time and Estrogen :

Pos: Nandrolones, Anavar, EQ, Primo, Mast.
Neg: Test, Tren, Winstrol (remember all those sprinters and MLB injuries from Winstrol?)

There was some sort of paper many years ago that concluded that 200mg/week or so of exo Test was the level where tendon structure started being affected negatively. Here is something that sort of supports that, however you have to ask are these injuries coming more often because the subjects are using T or because they are people who workout or are physical (maybe because they are using T lol)

 
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matt55 said:
ive been taking 600 mgs of EQ for around 15 weeks now,along with 800 test e and 100 tren e, with 25mgs anadrol daily for the past 5 weeks,now im at my all time strongest,but now my elbows are so dry and hurt so bad i can hardly press or do extentions,would dropping the EQ and adding low dose deca in help,cause i plan on going up with the tren,is deca at a low dose and tren at say,200-300 mgs weekly really so bad if the prolactin is controlled,i already kinda know the answer,just wondering what you guys would do?
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I am short on time and no doubt the other members have mentioned the following:
1. You are on a significant amount of anabolics and if your strength didn't go up significantly, something is very wrong. I don't know your past lifting history but on gear or not, you can only progress so fast as your tendons/ligaments can't keep up to your muscles which leads me to my next point.
2. Listen to your body, pain is a signal to slow down, stop, deload, and I don't buy into but I am on a large cycle and don't want to waist it. This is a turtle sport and you will be able to head back there is you want. Is it worth a serious injury? Not that I am saying you will get one, but listen to your body.
3. No one can tell you if this is over training, an injury, inflammation for sure - NSAIDS will help but will not hasten recovery/they do the opposite. Good physio, chiropractors and alternative practitioners are not a MRI machine but see this all the time and often can diagnose by range of motion, what movements hurts, testing your strength with specific movements, and come up with a rehabilitation plan. Many times I did physio and continues to lift but significantly reduced the weight I was pressing and concentrated on diet and healing.
4. I doubt Boldenone is the culprit (note I said culprit) and you are wasting your time with hormone blood work for estrogen as Trenbolone shows up as estrogen and it will read as if it is higher than it actually is. Boldenone is a mild AI, but you are also taking a lot of other compounds. As much as Anadrol can be fun for size and strength - it can be a recipe for disaster if you are already sore and then get another boost in strength. We have all been there, when we want to keep lifting more but take it from someone who had a lot of injuries - injuries will force you stop period vs. deloading/taking more time off for pain or I hope it will.
5. More time off is not a waste - if you push it at the gym (even with lighter weight), time off focusing on anti-inflammatory supplements and foods will give you more time to grow.
6. If you are looking for good natural anti-inflammatories, there are too many to mention but some I feel are better - curcumin with piperine (black peppercorns will provide a lot of piperine), raw ginger - at least twice a day, some peptides can help with inflammation and strengthen tendons - BPC157/KPV/TB500 are three I prefer, melatonin at night in the timed release formula, I prefer the 10 mg tablets, quality and yes expensive Cod liver oil, and don't forget about foods like pineapple, if you drink smoothies - adding in chia seeds and flax seeds help as well. Too many to mention.
7. I would not add in another strength compound for pain or another compound period. If I read correct, you are in significant pain, are going to increase tren and want to keep working out. You are playing with fire. I agree Deca is good two fold for sore joints - it does help with pain but in the short term it often masks the issue and you end up hurting yourself worse. I have used it but during the healing phase combined with a deload and multiple medical modalities to help heal quicker. There is evidence Deca does help with pain and collagen synthesis.

Hope you get this sorted out. I 100% get being stronger than ever and probably larger and not wanting to slow down, but this is not a 6 month sport - for most of us this is passion we do for decades and probably will until we are in the ground.
Take care
 
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