Am I lean enough to start massing?

[Lucario]

Hello,

I am in need of some guidance. I have been cutting since the very start of this year after finishing my first cycle and getting way too fat in the process.

I have gone from 97kg to 85kg fasted (see pics) in about 10 weeks on 200 test, 25 var pwo, 4ius gh, retatrutide and cagrilintide. I started 200 Tren E about 10 days ago but I don’t feel much yet.

My question is: what is my bf% here and is it low enough to start a 6-8 month massing phase (with a 6 week minicut at the 5-6 month mark if needed)? The cycle I will run for this massing phase will be around 1.5 grams.

I am asking because even with the GLP’s the fatigue is brutal and sleep has gone to shit (even before adding tren) so I am very tempted to call it.

Any opinions are appreciated! Thank you.

P.S. sorry for the horrible posing, I’m new to it

 

[The Old Guy]

I guess what is your goal? Compete ?

If you are overly fatigued I’d try and address that first. Unless you think you are going to make a living bodybuilding then it should not be consuming your life.

As far as adding mass, just continue to train hard, but be cognizant of overtraining and bring your calories into a surplus ensuring you have lots of protein and good fats in there.

 

[The Old Guy]

Oh and btw you look great most men would be really happy with what you have already accomplished.

 

[Sorbate]

You do look really good.

Maybe try feeding your body for a bit.

And you are more than lean enough. You are in the low 10's for sure.

 

[BanditNOLIMIT]

If you’re at your wits end with the diet and don’t think you can push any further, you’re definitely lean enough to start pushing.

From my experience though, the leaner you can get, the more successful the growth phase will be. With essentially no ceiling on that. Assuming you don’t starve yourself to death lol.

Lower back, glutes and hamstrings are typically the measuring stick to tell how lean someone is, but obviously we can’t see those in these pics.

In my opinion, I think you should keep pushing if it’s not going to interfere with your day to day too heavily.

 

[Lucario]

I guess what is your goal? Compete ?

If you are overly fatigued I’d try and address that first. Unless you think you are going to make a living bodybuilding then it should not be consuming your life.

As far as adding mass, just continue to train hard, but be cognizant of overtraining and bring your calories into a surplus ensuring you have lots of protein and good fats in there.

So even though I am not looking to compete at the end of this cut for obvious lack of…everything, I am looking to give myself the most runway possible in order to have the most productive off season possible as I am aspiring to compete one day.

Oh and btw you look great most men would be really happy with what you have already accomplished.

I very much appreciate that sir, the borderline-obese 18yo me was praying for times like these!

 

[Lucario]

If you’re at your wits end with the diet and don’t think you can push any further, you’re definitely lean enough to start pushing.

From my experience though, the leaner you can get, the more successful the growth phase will be. With essentially no ceiling on that. Assuming you don’t starve yourself to death lol.

Lower back, glutes and hamstrings are typically the measuring stick to tell how lean someone is, but obviously we can’t see those in these pics.

In my opinion, I think you should keep pushing if it’s not going to interfere with your day to day too heavily.

Thank you very much for the advice Bandit. After getting a few opinions I think I will put my head down for another 3-4 weeks and get in a proper spot to start lean massing.

Also, I did take back pics but I didn’t think they mattered too much so here they are.

 

[BanditNOLIMIT]

Thank you very much for the advice Bandit. After getting a few opinions I think I will put my head down for another 3-4 weeks and get in a proper spot to start lean massing.

Also, I did take back pics but I didn’t think they mattered too much so here they are.

Still a good amount of digging if you want to set yourself up with the best run way possible. Like I mentioned before, you could push from here but you would have to be a lot more conservative with food.

Good luck bro

 

[Lil Jimmy]

Still a good amount of digging if you want to set yourself up with the best run way possible. Like I mentioned before, you could push from here but you would have to be a lot more conservative with food.

Good luck bro

Really not much can be added to this advice. Both his posts. Its so much easier rebounding out of really low bodyfat state. I don't know your diet but if you're really struggling to lose your last bit of bodyfat maybe you're not eating enough? Calories too low? Again just speculating. Sometimes its good to load a little more wood(food) on the fire to keep it burning(metabolism) stronger/faster. Keep battling for those last few lbs of fat and then you'll be a happy boy when you start reverse dieting and adding calories. You've already shown you have the drive/work ethic to reach your goals so keep at it. Good luck man.

 

[Lucario]

Still a good amount of digging if you want to set yourself up with the best run way possible. Like I mentioned before, you could push from here but you would have to be a lot more conservative with food.

Good luck bro

Really not much can be added to this advice. Both his posts. Its so much easier rebounding out of really low bodyfat state. I don't know your diet but if you're really struggling to lose your last bit of bodyfat maybe you're not eating enough? Calories too low? Again just speculating. Sometimes its good to load a little more wood(food) on the fire to keep it burning(metabolism) stronger/faster. Keep battling for those last few lbs of fat and then you'll be a happy boy when you start reverse dieting and adding calories. You've already shown you have the drive/work ethic to reach your goals so keep at it. Good luck man.

Say less, that is the plan then. I will keep going for another 4 weeks minimum and will be carb cycling (1 high day per week) to try and reach 8%. I thank you both very much for your valuable input. o7

 

[Lucario]

Well, heres an update for those who are interested.

I put an end to my diet. Despite saying that I will keep digging for another 4 weeks, 10 days was truly all i could muster up. The reason for stopping earlier than planned was because this cut has become all-consuming to the point where my relationships with loved ones were starting to seriously deteriorate over it, which made it not worth pursuing further.

Anyhow, the pictures below are what i’m looking like now at 83kg fasted at 5’11”. I dont think i’m quite 8% yet but I would guess that I’m at least single digits.

I will take the coming week to try and find my maintenance calories before moving into a 6 week rebound phase followed by a growth phase that i can hopefully stretch out until at least next winter.

I have started my rebound cycle of 750 test, 600eq and 150 tren, 4iu gh but that will take a little while to saturate. I will keep training with high intensity but I will not increase training volume until I feel properly restored from the deficit.

Once I move into a proper surplus of calories, I will start an off-season log where I will post weekly check-ins as I need to be held accountable in case I start putting on fat too quick like I did for my first cycle.

Any opinions or feedback is appreciated.

Thank you!

 

[animal-inside]

I wish I could go back and tell my younger self "add some calories to gain some mass, but never loose sight of your abs".

If you do decide to bulk, don't pile in calories just to see the scale move... That was my mistake.. quality calories added when needed to continue to build muscle.. dont add so many cals you start putting on fat..

You'll put a bit more fat on, but you should make sure you dont loose the abs.. Adding fat just puts you further behind when you want to loose the fat eventually.

 

[BanditNOLIMIT]

Good work bro, you’re in a good position

 

[Brbpuppy]

You’re in a good spot man, you look great. Good luck with your push.

 

[Vitko]

Hello,

I am in need of some guidance. I have been cutting since the very start of this year after finishing my first cycle and getting way too fat in the process.

I have gone from 97kg to 85kg fasted (see pics) in about 10 weeks on 200 test, 25 var pwo, 4ius gh, retatrutide and cagrilintide. I started 200 Tren E about 10 days ago but I don’t feel much yet.

My question is: what is my bf% here and is it low enough to start a 6-8 month massing phase (with a 6 week minicut at the 5-6 month mark if needed)? The cycle I will run for this massing phase will be around 1.5 grams.

I am asking because even with the GLP’s the fatigue is brutal and sleep has gone to shit (even before adding tren) so I am very tempted to call it.

Any opinions are appreciated! Thank you.

P.S. sorry for the horrible posing, I’m new to it

You look good bro, lean enough for sure, hard to tell over a photo but I would put you at around 9-10% BF. What compounds do you plan to run on your gain phase? And what is the ultimate goal in terms of weight/size?

 

[Lucario]

You look good bro, lean enough for sure, hard to tell over a photo but I would put you at around 9-10% BF. What compounds do you plan to run on your gain phase? And what is the ultimate goal in terms of weight/size?

So after this 6 week rebound is over I'll be going on vacation for a week and once I'm back I will move to the massing phase. PED wise I'm thinking of just switching the 150 tren for 300 deca and running that for as long as I can, maybe adding 50mg of anadrol PWO if I feel like I could use a strength boost. I have no set goal in terms of bodyweight or size; I just want to get as big as physically possible as I would like to compete eventually. I would like to do classic physique but I doubt that I have the shape for it. Anyway, that's a decision for 60 lbs of muscle down the line...

 

[Vitko]

So after this 6 week rebound is over I'll be going on vacation for a week and once I'm back I will move to the massing phase. PED wise I'm thinking of just switching the 150 tren for 300 deca and running that for as long as I can, maybe adding 50mg of anadrol PWO if I feel like I could use a strength boost. I have no set goal in terms of bodyweight or size; I just want to get as big as physically possible as I would like to compete eventually. I would like to do classic physique but I doubt that I have the shape for it. Anyway, that's a decision for 60 lbs of muscle down the line...

For bulking I would definitely recommend a deca or npp opposed to tren, what kinda test will you run alongside it? I personally like to run my test 2:1 deca so something like 800 test 400 deca. Different things work for other guys but I found that to be my sweet spot to avoid any and all deca sides.

 

[Lucario]

For bulking I would definitely recommend a deca or npp opposed to tren, what kinda test will you run alongside it? I personally like to run my test 2:1 deca so something like 800 test 400 deca. Different things work for other guys but I found that to be my sweet spot to avoid any and all deca sides.

So ive started taking 750 test C, 600 EQ and plan to run that the entirety of the rebound+massing phase. As for tren/deca/anadrol/dbol those are all add-ons I'm willing to try but not dead set on.

 

[Brbpuppy]

So ive started taking 750 test C, 600 EQ and plan to run that the entirety of the rebound+massing phase. As for tren/deca/anadrol/dbol those are all add-ons I'm willing to try but not dead set on.

You plan to get bloods pulled to see where that ratio puts your E2?

 

[Lucario]

You plan to get bloods pulled to see where that ratio puts your E2?

I will pull bloods every few months no matter what but to be honest, I could also wing it as my first cycle was T+EQ and I found the ratio that works for me: (4T:3EQ)-ish.