BloodWork Concern, Especially ALT.

[lilfrenchmen]

I wasn't sure where to ask this, I am fairly new to this type of stuff and I was just wanting for other opinions on my Blood Test results. The AST results are considerably high obviously, and I am not fully sure why.

To start, I'm 20y old, Taking 300mg of Test C, 12.5mg of Exemestane (Aromasin) two times per week. The first result at 129 U/L was after I stopped 25mg of Anavar daily. I had stopped it due to a little bit of a shocker on my blood work, unfortunately I dont have the pictures of the old blood work but it was around May 15th, my AST was at 450 sumn, and I got stressed out and stopped the anavar. One month later, on June 10th I got thew results back at 129. I was reassured, and like a dumb ass I started again for a little bit, until i realized a couple days prior to the blood test that I probably should stop taking anything with liver toxicity, so I stopped, again. The next blood test you see at 278 U/L is on July 14th.

So, my question is, what should I be doing (I am going to buy NAC or TUDCA), and what are your guys' thoughts on all of this. I know that I wasnt very smart or planned out, and thats obviously my fault but I am just looking for the best way to rebound from such mistakes.

Thank you guys for your time and I appreciate all responses!

 

[Redz]

Seems pretty obvious…. First sounds like you don’t know enough about what you are taking to cycle. I wouldn’t even be running aromasin at such a low test dose. The Anavar and likely poor diet are spiking your levels.

The best advice I can give would be to get off and learn more so you don’t hurt yourself.

 

[lilfrenchmen]

Seems pretty obvious…. First sounds like you don’t know enough about what you are taking to cycle. I wouldn’t even be running aromasin at such a low test dose. The Anavar and likely poor diet are spiking your levels.

The best advice I can give would be to get off and learn more so you don’t hurt yourself.

okok, thank so much for your advice. Are those levels worrying though? is it something to be stressed about? I did forget to mention, I am on TRT. At the time, I was doing 300 to try it out, but my normal dose is 200. Im not doing anything for body building or anything, even though I would like to compete one day, I thought that my gyno was reversible or even preventable from taking test, I didn't know that it was super dose dependent. Do you reccomend just sticking to Test then? no aromasin?

Thanks again!

 

[CanadianEh]

okok, thank so much for your advice. Are those levels worrying though? is it something to be stressed about? I did forget to mention, I am on TRT. At the time, I was doing 300 to try it out, but my normal dose is 200. Im not doing anything for body building or anything, even though I would like to compete one day, I thought that my gyno was reversible or even preventable from taking test, I didn't know that it was super dose dependent. Do you reccomend just sticking to Test then? no aromasin?

Thanks again!

What doctor prescribed you TRT at 20? I have never seen that in my life aside from people who lost testicles from cancer.

 

[gondar1]

I tend to write a lot of reply posts where I strive to be as polite as I can whilst conveying the message that the person I am responding to is showing telltale signs that they are very under educated in the subject area of things that we discuss on the board here. Often one of the final lines is that they should stop everything and get up to speed before even thinking about consuming anymore potentially very harmful chemicals and that this board is a wealth of info so get reading.

If you think that may be something of interest then by all means please search those posts out, I'm not the only one who makes them.
I suggest that rather than making yet another such post because there is a good chance I might finally just lose my shit completely as I tend to do when discussing this with such people in real life, appropriate name calling etc.
I'll bet you'll get some help from others here who are less cranky than I am today but I do have one question. It might help lead further conversation.
Please describe in detail how/why you came to be on TRT at your young age? Is it prescribed TRT under a Dr's supervision?

I post because I care. Fuck me if it isn't getting harder all the time though, I'm well aware that that is my problem.

 

[lilfrenchmen]

Im not trying to piss anyone off, I apologize if I did. I appreciate that you care about situations like this. For the TRT, I know its crazy but my doctor saw that my test at 17 was under 100, and we tried so many things, it was killing me, I had a lot of side effects, and It was ruining my life (I also only have one testicle due to severe torsion at 16, so it probably doesn't help). I took the decision at 19 years old to take TRT. I know that it is a big decision, but it made me feel so so so much better, I cant even explain it.

 

[Redz]

Im not trying to piss anyone off, I apologize if I did. I appreciate that you care about situations like this. For the TRT, I know its crazy but my doctor saw that my test at 17 was under 100, and we tried so many things, it was killing me, I had a lot of side effects, and It was ruining my life (I also only have one testicle due to severe torsion at 16, so it probably doesn't help). I took the decision at 19 years old to take TRT. I know that it is a big decision, but it made me feel so so so much better, I cant even explain it.

Ok so the trt is a pretty healthy dose at 200mg. You should be able to make gains on that alone. Seems like Anavar is not for you what are your stats? Weight, height bf?

 

[CanadianEh]

If you truly want help should post your full bloodwork results, including previously before starting trt so we can see what your baseline was for your other values and then also full bloodwork after starting.

Make sure to include Free test, total test, shbg, e2, prolactin, your liver values, kidneys markers, best to just post everything you have. Its tough to give advice with partial information

 

[Sorbate]

Im not trying to piss anyone off, I apologize if I did. I appreciate that you care about situations like this. For the TRT, I know its crazy but my doctor saw that my test at 17 was under 100, and we tried so many things, it was killing me, I had a lot of side effects, and It was ruining my life (I also only have one testicle due to severe torsion at 16, so it probably doesn't help). I took the decision at 19 years old to take TRT. I know that it is a big decision, but it made me feel so so so much better, I cant even explain it.

My thought. You needed trt
But your body is not perfect either, so maybe avoid orals, espevially if you are not sure what to take to mitigate sides yet.

Maybe give your body some time to heal now that you are on trt.

Stay on your trt, but ask questions like you did hear and read lots.

Don’t get upset, people are just looking out for you, because you are young.

 

[lilfrenchmen]

Ok so the trt is a pretty healthy dose at 200mg. You should be able to make gains on that alone. Seems like Anavar is not for you what are your stats? Weight, height bf?

My Weight (was 235lbs) now is 199lbs, Im 5ft 8, I think im around 20% body fat, maybe higher, for sure under 30%.

 

[lilfrenchmen]

If you truly want help should post your full bloodwork results, including previously before starting trt so we can see what your baseline was for your other values and then also full bloodwork after starting.

Make sure to include Free test, total test, shbg, e2, prolactin, your liver values, kidneys markers, best to just post everything you have. Its tough to give advice with partial information

Okok, sounds good, I will try to do that! I have to contact my doctor for the results, I dont have them on hand. I understand the difficulty with partial info, I apologize. Thank you for the help.

 

[gondar1]

Im not trying to piss anyone off, I apologize if I did. I appreciate that you care about situations like this. For the TRT, I know its crazy but my doctor saw that my test at 17 was under 100, and we tried so many things, it was killing me, I had a lot of side effects, and It was ruining my life (I also only have one testicle due to severe torsion at 16, so it probably doesn't help). I took the decision at 19 years old to take TRT. I know that it is a big decision, but it made me feel so so so much better, I cant even explain it.

Hey I'm not pissed at you, just the situation sometimes, you have nothing to apologize for. That's a perfectly legit reasoning for TRT and I'm glad you a least have a good reason even if it is so unfortunate. I can only imagine having that issue at that age, a nightmare I bet. I'd bet I would have done the same.

I'm particularly sensitive at this time because I just yesterday started training a new kid, a friend's son a little older than you and he is a bit of a mess from reckless cycling he did at 19-20, I'm sympathetic but I spent a lot of time scolding him. That's not my place here.

Advice about getting educated still stands though, I wish you all the best in figuring it out.

 

[lilfrenchmen]

My thought. You needed trt
But your body is not perfect either, so maybe avoid orals, espevially if you are not sure what to take to mitigate sides yet.

Maybe give your body some time to heal now that you are on trt.

Stay on your trt, but ask questions like you did hear and read lots.

Don’t get upset, people are just looking out for you, because you are young.

I understand the frustration of others due to my lack of knowledge and age, all I want is advice and I want to make sure that I don't offend anyone and that it stays a respectful conversation. In terms of the TRT, my thought was the same, if im already on TRT, then why not try to expirement with steriods, I was naive and did not research enough what I was putting my body through, I was lucky enough to have only a couple bad things happen, as you can see at the top of this post lol. I am for sure done with oral steriods lol, I am now focused on researching more about certain compounds and making sure that I find what I am looking for rather then jumping right into it and getting messed up. I really appreciate everyones messages and I am glad to have found a place where I can ask questions and read about certain problems. Thanks again!

 

[gondar1]

Okok, sounds good, I will try to do that! I have to contact my doctor for the results, I dont have them on hand. I understand the difficulty with partial info, I apologize. Thank you for the help.

depending on which province and lab you may be able to access all your bloodwork on line

 

[lilfrenchmen]

Hey I'm not pissed at you, just the situation sometimes, you have nothing to apologize for. That's a perfectly legit reasoning for TRT and I'm glad you a least have a good reason even if it is so unfortunate. I can only imagine having that issue at that age, a nightmare I bet. I'd bet I would have done the same.

I'm particularly sensitive at this time because I just yesterday started training a new kid, a friend's son a little older than you and he is a bit of a mess from reckless cycling he did at 19-20, I'm sympathetic but I spent a lot of time scolding him. That's not my place here.

Advice about getting educated still stands though, I wish you all the best in figuring it out.

Thank you very much for your message, I really appreciate it. It would have been very helpful to have a page like this when I was dealing with all of my problems lol. I appreciate your passion in this subject, and I hope the best for you and your trainee. Thank you again for the help!

 

[gondar1]

I understand the frustration of others due to my lack of knowledge and age, all I want is advice and I want to make sure that I don't offend anyone and that it stays a respectful conversation. In terms of the TRT, my thought was the same, if im already on TRT, then why not try to expirement with steriods, I was naive and did not research enough what I was putting my body through, I was lucky enough to have only a couple bad things happen, as you can see at the top of this post lol. I am for sure done with oral steriods lol, I am now focused on researching more about certain compounds and making sure that I find what I am looking for rather then jumping right into it and getting messed up. I really appreciate everyones messages and I am glad to have found a place where I can ask questions and read about certain problems. Thanks again!

That attitude will get you far here. You may take some comfort in that ALT and ALP are liver enzymes and the liver is probably the most resilient and likely to recover organ we have. IDK enough about LD to comment, IDK that I have ever even seen that on a panel before nut it may be related to the damage from the liver issues.
What has your Dr said about any of this?

 

[T77]

I understand the frustration of others due to my lack of knowledge and age, all I want is advice and I want to make sure that I don't offend anyone and that it stays a respectful conversation. In terms of the TRT, my thought was the same, if im already on TRT, then why not try to expirement with steriods, I was naive and did not research enough what I was putting my body through, I was lucky enough to have only a couple bad things happen, as you can see at the top of this post lol. I am for sure done with oral steriods lol, I am now focused on researching more about certain compounds and making sure that I find what I am looking for rather then jumping right into it and getting messed up. I really appreciate everyones messages and I am glad to have found a place where I can ask questions and read about certain problems. Thanks again!

Welcome to the board young sir. Don't worry about frustrating people, some of is are old/older cranky bastards. Guys here seem to legitimately want folks, especially younger ones like yourself to be healthy about their usage which is why you got the initial frustration. Now that you've stated a legit medical reason for trt so young I can see your struggle. Guts here will definitely be valuable sources of knowledge. My thoughts taking in your whole situation would be to stay on the doc prescribed dosage and focus on building a solid base of muscle and create good technique and training rituals. On top of that, work at getting nutrition on point and body fat down to 18 percent or lower. If at some point you decide you want to increase than keep it simple by adding the same ester of test your doc has prescribed. But first, use this forum. Soooooo much knowledge here. Read up on as much as you can. Than ask question, dont worry about them being stupid. If people can tell the questions come from curiosity and you seem to have looked into the basics you will get support from the many knowledgeable members here. Good luck young fella

 

[Redz]

My Weight (was 235lbs) now is 199lbs, Im 5ft 8, I think im around 20% body fat, maybe higher, for sure under 30%.

I would suggest sticking to trt and cutting more before adding in compounds. Get it to the 15% range at least.

 

[vancitybb]

You need to be taking liver support supplements when running any oral, my friend. Seems like you know this already, having mentioned TUDCA and NAC. I'm twice your age, and my liver values were prefect after a 6 week run of var at 60mg daily. I don't advocate taking such a dose, but it illustrates what a difference proper support can make. My support stack was: TUDCA, NAC, Milk Thistle, and injectable glutathione EOD.

 

[Goldenrod]

Who ordered this panel to determine the health of your liver, usually LD is ordered by specialists when they are looking for organ issues. It is general indicator of cell death, organ damage, anemia, and can be elevated from a lot of other factors beside liver injury. If the doctor ordered this panel, I wonder where his/her mind was or what they were looking for.
I don't see the most sensitive liver blood test GGT on the panel which is odd.
I have seen numbers considerably higher for liver markers, and they may down over time when the stressing factors are removed (toxic compounds/many orals, alcohol, tylenol are some the most popular).
ALT, AST, ALP are basic indicators of 'potential' long term damage, GGT is an indicator of stress at the moment which is why it is important to check it as well.
I hope the doctor is doing a follow up blood test in 2-4 weeks. Some GP's do not and not sure why. They need to know if your liver markers are getting worse or better. If the second test shows more stress/no improvement, an ultrasound is ordered to determine what may be going on.

It is not out of the ordinary for people who use liver toxic orals to have elevated liver enzymes that go back to normal when they stop, but you can only do that so many times before your liver will tell you to piss off and does not recover.
Good pointer for @vancitybb - you can take multiple herbs/products that increase your glutathione and reduce oxidative stress/inflammation. I would be doing this but be aware that you can take all the top/best known liver supplements and orals still cause too much liver stress. It makes no difference what I take, I can't touch orals or my liver enzymes increase.

There are multiple threads on liver supplements in the health section.

Hopefully, your doctor will call you in for a consult to discuss potential causes and continue to monitor you.