Abnormal PED usage

Tren4Evah said:
Can we please have a mod or someone delete or lock this thread and just keep golden rods original statement? Theres no reason this had to carry on for so long
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Extremely rare for deleting to happen here bud. Pretty often that threads full of advice to be careful run long though, quite often the posters that are seen as potentially endangering themselves and possibly influencing uneducated readers with risky practices get defensive for some reason. Most of the time, and I think this time, it gets mentioned that anyone is free to do whatever they want with or to themselves but most of us care enough to not let some things get normalized.
Pretty balanced thread here if you take a step back and have a look, cheers.
 
Tren4Evah said:
I’m sorry if im being a douchebag to everyone but we can’t ignore logic and pretend that the pros you guys look up to are saints and don’t lie.

Also, some people need higher doses reletive to their own genetics to grow. Some people can HANDLE higher doses because their body is super resilient.

I laughed when that fucktard with a mouth full of popcorn is acting like people with genetic resilience to drugs have never been seen before. LITTERALY ANY OPEN PRO. For other drug addicts, take a look at Izzy Osborn. Literally proven he was genetically capable of handling drugs. You and your popcorn can Go fuck yourself

@hericlitus
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Tren4evah, sure I could lock the thread. You could un-delete your comments insulting people which I can see. Are you calling @Heraclitus a retard.
You may not like what people are saying, but it is best to keep your sarcastic comments and insults to yourself. Sure @biguglynewf gave it back to you but you started taking shot at him.
@Heraclitus He is one of the brighter members on this forum and a regular contributor. Using examples of people who can abuse whatever and are OK, doesn't make one iota of difference compared to what you are trying to justify.
If you want this thread to stop, stop commenting and trying to justify what you are doing with examples or analogies that make no sense.
I started this thread so people do not think taking 4 17α-Alkylated orals is a good idea with or without what most people consider a harsh and large injectable cycle too. No one will argue some people are more adaptable to higher dosages. No one knows what any power lifter/strongman/guys who are 300 lbs ripped on stage took except the person themselves. Do they lie - of course.

Just look at John Meadows and the plethora of body builders who dies before 50 and preached health (look at all the RIP threads or the people who are not dead yet, but their health is terrible). Mountain Dog was known for some incredible training programs and a sin he is not with us, he was great to read.
@Bigbear - you should undue your deleted comment as it is true.

Say what you like, but what you are doing is reckless - that is my point and only reason for the post. Lots of guys will take 2.5 grams of gear including tren.
I wish another member who had to stop abusing drugs due to health reasons, left for a long time, got his health back, and is taking less but looks great. If I had more coffee, I would remember his name. It will come to me - @biguglynewf - remember he won the Charlie Sheen award on CJM one year and is here a lot. Nice guy, lots of experience, and pushes the envelope and speaks the truth. Apologies to that member as he is great guy for helping people too.
Have you not noticed all the people who are dying or having heart attacks/strokes and are bodybuilders making the news. Keep telling yourself you are immune to abuse - eventually you body will tell you to stop if you push the envelope with cycles like you are doing over and over again. No one knows if they were taking other drug but we do not talk about illegal drugs (outside PED's and legal drugs like marijuana) on this forum. It is a rule.

The guys who win on the big stage no doubt are pushing the limit with steroids or other compounds, but I many need more as they are not as clinical about use like @BanditNOLIMIT - have a coach, weigh their food and track growth/cutting with food, train harder than most people, and even keep track of their sleep to ensure recovery, not to mention a close eye on digestion. Hence my comment on his log about getting ready to compete. @BanditNOLIMIT - I can't answer your question because everyone is different regarding how much is too much, but I don't think you would argue that the 4 extremely liver harsh orals taken in this plan is a good idea.
I already mentioned I could not take what you do - but you are younger, we don't have the same goals lifting weights/training/PED usage. I enjoyed your log, and while I thought you took a lot of different products - I don't ever recall you taking 4 extreme liver toxic compounds at the same time.

No one can predict the future for anyone, the best you can do it track your health know and do what you can to mitigate risk. I agree I think this thread is coming to an end, but my point again is for new members not to read what @Tren4Evah is doing as normal. For the average guy you are really pushing the envelope and predict many who do anything similar will end up in the ER with liver issues and their blood work will be terrible.
@Tren4Evah - one of the reasons there are so many comments is due to you starting with massive abuse at 15, parents didn't notice your incredible growth, all the scans you say about micro/macro changes which I don't buy, extensive herb/supplement knowledge at 15, etc., etc. This was never meant, from my perspective to shit on you - just a warning to guys who start the PED road, start small and see how you respond. What they do from there is their business but no one should be taking the 4 extremely liver harsh orals you are taking at the same time. I still stand behind that comment. I said you do what you want, but it consider a sage warning to other people who do not research products.
As I said or I am full of shit and don't know what I am talking about.
 
Tren4Evah said:
Can we please have a mod or someone delete or lock this thread and just keep golden rods original statement? Theres no reason this had to carry on for so long
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Tren4Evah said:
Thanks bubuglynewf. If we set our differences aside, you might realize im actually not that evil. When it comes to steroid theory, we might have deferring opinions but we can still get along.

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@biguglynewf calls you a cunt and suddenly he’s the favorite uncle.

I agree with your comments, mirror them back and that makes me a fucktard. Maybe think on why it makes you feel that way.

This thread is a masterpiece. Never delete it.

Back to my popcorn.
🍿
 
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Goldenrod said:
Just look at John Meadows and the plethora of body builders who dies before 50 and preached health (look at all the RIP threads or the people who are not dead yet, but their health is terrible). Mountain Dog was known for some incredible training programs and a sin he is not with us, he was great to read..
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John Meadows might be a bad example to use here as from what I heard he actually outlived both of his parents.

Dont quote me on that though.
 
Sorbate said:
Do they have a breakdown per year.

After 2020 myocarditis could have contributed to some excess deaths.
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Not that I know of.

The data collected is from pro bodybuilders that competed in at least one ifbb competition between 2005 and 2020. I'd personally rule out anything covid related.

It's more than just drugs with these guys, it's their mental health and what not as well. Still, have a look at the study for yourself and you'll see the things that they typically died from.

That's a small group of people (relative to the general population) to be dying at the average age of 45 years old. That's enough for me to confidently say anyone competing or using drugs like a competitor does is a ticking time bomb. IDC how much blood work or imaging someone does. I personally see it as a relatively worthless "make me feel good" type of activity to make up for the guilt of abusing drugs.
 
CoolRick said:
John Meadows might be a bad example to use here as from what I heard he actually outlived both of his parents.

Dont quote me on that though.
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maybe true - don't know, but he always preached about health, walks, digestion, etc.
A quick search and you come up with a list, that is not complete and I do not follow all the bodybuilders or influencers:
  • Jo Lindner ("Joesthetics") (Age 30): Passed away in 2023 from an aneurysm.
  • George Peterson (Age 37): Passed away in 2021 shortly before the Olympia competition.
  • Dallas McCarver (Age 26): Died in 2017; autopsy revealed severe cardiovascular disease.
  • Rich Piana (Age 46): Passed away in 2017 after a long hospitalization.
  • Cedric McMillan (Age 44): Passed away in 2022 after heart issues.
  • Shawn Rhoden (Age 46): 2018 Mr. Olympia winner who died in 2021 of a heart attack.
  • John Meadows ("Mountain Dog") (Age 49): Passed away in 2020 due to a pulmonary embolism.
  • Luke Sandoe (Age 30): Passed away in 2020.
  • Jodi Vance (Age 20): Passed away in 2025 due to a heart attack caused by severe dehydration.
  • Anthony Souza (Age 26): Died of a heart attack shortly after a competition in 2024.
  • Kadu Santos (Age 31): Brazilian bodybuilder who died of a stroke in 2025
 
This post is changing to a health post which has resulted in people passing away early. Take a look at some of these gentlemen and ladies and there is no questions 'mother nature' never meant you to look like that.
1. Lifting weights and exercising is healthy - taken to extremes you will probably suffer from arthritis, injuries, or serious issues like torn ligaments, etc. In general for the average lifter who does have any serious injuries, you will have stronger bones, ligaments, tendons, muscles, and be more agile into old age. Everyone knows cardio of any kind is good for the average person for heart health, etc.
2. Throw in TRT for a guy who is low on test, and this is probably a good thing. There are enough studies to show low testosterone is not good for men. You could use HCG or TRT, but low test sucks in so many ways - the quality of life improvements for most men makes it worth it (if you need it and are not just doing it 'because').
3. I don't think anyone will argue constant progressive overload and chances are you will eventually have an injury. I had many but luckily none that required surgery or were deemed anything too serious. Throw in exogenous steroids, or any PED and few are going to be healthy for you in excessive doses. I am no angel, and do mini cycles with 250 mg total a week. A very small cycle by most people's standards but I don't care - I can achieve a lot more on a few 250 mg cycles a year or throwing 100 to 150 mg of another 'less toxic' compound on top of TRT. I am not heading for the stage but my side job is a lot easier when I throw 150 mg of deca/NPP on top of 100 mg of T E, for 3 months. If I eat to grow I will put on 10-15 lbs in a few months and get significantly stronger. This is not healthy, but it is my compromise. Each to their own for those who want to do more.
4. Getting older and low on HGH, if monitored by docs, and you have regular check-ups, considered good for turning back the clock to some degree but a double edged sword as IGF makes everything grow including bad cells.
5. Step on the gas with PED's - some are worse than others, which is any adults choice and none of my business, but I don't think anyone will argue being 300 lbs and extremely muscular will be hard on your joints, hard on the liver/kidneys/heart/lipids/and so on. Keep doing this and blast and cruise and eventually your body will tell you stop. There are guys who blasted and cruised for a few years, competed, and then ended on TRT and are still smashing the weights at the gym in their 70's and look great and are strong. There are exceptions but they only pushed it for a few years.
6. Excessive caloric intake and traditional bodybuilding diet is not necessary healthy, but working with @Funnyman and another trainer - has helped put together a diet that both provides adequate calories/protein/carbs/healthy fats to grow or cut. Same food - just weigh out different amounts.
Eating less has proven over multiple studies to elongate your life, but I will roll the dice as I rely on food more so than PED's to grow. Not a brag, just a choice.
Interesting topic and people may disagree with this, which is what forums are for - respectful disagreements.

I fully admit I am addicted to lifting, being stronger and larger than the average man by a large %. I am not 10% BF, and may decide to cut my weight and head there being 10% BF isn't going to get me more sex, money, and I questions considering I eat healthy, live a healthy life - is it really going to do anything for me other than turn a few heads.

Each to their own - everyone has the right to do what they like.
 
There
CoolRick said:
Not that I know of.

The data collected is from pro bodybuilders that competed in at least one ifbb competition between 2005 and 2020. I'd personally rule out anything covid related.

It's more than just drugs with these guys, it's their mental health and what not as well. Still, have a look at the study for yourself and you'll see the things that they typically died from.

That's a small group of people (relative to the general population) to be dying at the average age of 45 years old. That's enough for me to confidently say anyone competing or using drugs like a competitor does is a ticking time bomb. IDC how much blood work or imaging someone does. I personally see it as a relatively worthless "make me feel good" type of activity to make up for the guilt of abusing drugs.
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There is no year to year breakdown.
The study wasn’t done that well. Very general.
I would be since studies have shown 30% get myocarditis from the vaccine, higher after second dose, you add on the other drugs that are stressing the heart and you get heart issues.

I do agree though that pounding abusive dosages plus all the rest is not safe at all.
 
Goldenrod said:
maybe true - don't know, but he always preached about health, walks, digestion, etc.
A quick search and you come up with a list, that is not complete and I do not follow all the bodybuilders or influencers:
  • Jo Lindner ("Joesthetics") (Age 30): Passed away in 2023 from an aneurysm.
  • George Peterson (Age 37): Passed away in 2021 shortly before the Olympia competition.
  • Dallas McCarver (Age 26): Died in 2017; autopsy revealed severe cardiovascular disease.
  • Rich Piana (Age 46): Passed away in 2017 after a long hospitalization.
  • Cedric McMillan (Age 44): Passed away in 2022 after heart issues.
  • Shawn Rhoden (Age 46): 2018 Mr. Olympia winner who died in 2021 of a heart attack.
  • John Meadows ("Mountain Dog") (Age 49): Passed away in 2020 due to a pulmonary embolism.
  • Luke Sandoe (Age 30): Passed away in 2020.
  • Jodi Vance (Age 20): Passed away in 2025 due to a heart attack caused by severe dehydration.
  • Anthony Souza (Age 26): Died of a heart attack shortly after a competition in 2024.
  • Kadu Santos (Age 31): Brazilian bodybuilder who died of a stroke in 2025
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Luke Sandow committed suscide from depression because of covid and being seperated from everyone.

I really enjoyed watching his stuff and do miss his podcast
 
Sorbate said:
There is no year to year breakdown.
The study wasn’t done that well. Very general.
I would be since studies have shown 30% get myocarditis from the vaccine, higher after second dose, you add on the other drugs that are stressing the heart and you get heart issues.

I do agree though that pounding abusive dosages plus all the rest is not safe at all.
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That study is just a collection of the average age of mortality, a simple database. Not to mention the data is from pre-covid. It's as simple as modern day IFBB pros have a short life expectancy. The vaccine as a factor would only strengthen the case of these guys screwing themselves up with drugs as they're less resilient to cardiac stress than the average person.

Respectfully, what are you hoping the find if the vaccine was a factor? That their impeding heart attack was more likely going to happen a year or two later instead if they didn't take it?
 
I want to rip my hair out when I hear people say you need to take lots of gear. It's usually smaller people too. Then of course they say oh it's your genetics but honestly I don't have good genetics. I can be honest and tell them but it's like they don't even hear me for some reason. A lot of people really are not very intelligent in this world I am finding. I sound harsh but it's true and we do need to try and protect them. I don't think lies or BS or saying big cycles don't work is the answer, talking to people with empathy, patience and time seems to be a good approach. No slogans or simple answers.

I couldn't imagine 500mg of Tren alone lol, omg and I actually handle it fine. 80-120mg of Tren with 500mg of test for two months is phenomenal if everything else is dialed in but that's quite rare like really really rare even for people who compete at an amateur level.
 
CoolRick said:
That study is just a collection of the average age of mortality, a simple database. Not to mention the data is from pre-covid. It's as simple as modern day IFBB pros have a short life expectancy. The vaccine as a factor would only strengthen the case of these guys screwing themselves up with drugs as they're less resilient to cardiac stress than the average person.

Respectfully, what are you hoping the find if the vaccine was a factor? That their impeding heart attack was more likely going to happen a year or two later instead if they didn't take it?
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Not trying to find anything.
Just a curosity.
 
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