Latest blood work on TRT

S

Southpaw72

Member
Trusted Member
For context, 52m, on TRT for almost 5 years. 4 years on Androgel 1%, and the last 11 months on Test Cyp, 100mg/week IM. 6'1", 178lbs, with last(1 month ago)Dexa at 16.8%bf. My numbers from last blood work below:

Total test level - 27.9
Free test level - 0.612 nmol/L = 2.19 %
Bioavailable test - 14 nmol/L = 50.2 %
PSA - 2.03
Hemocrit - .49
SHBG - 37
Fasted glucose - 5.2

I trust the clinic, but would love to have anyone's else's take on these numbers. I'm still trying to build muscle, am in a slight caloric surplus(200/day), and lift 3 times a week full body. Much appreciate your responses. Have a great day.
 
Southpaw72 said:
For context, 52m, on TRT for almost 5 years. 4 years on Androgel 1%, and the last 11 months on Test Cyp, 100mg/week IM. 6'1", 178lbs, with last(1 month ago)Dexa at 16.8%bf. My numbers from last blood work below:

Total test level - 27.9
Free test level - 0.612 nmol/L = 2.19 %
Bioavailable test - 14 nmol/L = 50.2 %
PSA - 2.03
Hemocrit - .49
SHBG - 37
Fasted glucose - 5.2

I trust the clinic, but would love to have anyone's else's take on these numbers. I'm still trying to build muscle, am in a slight caloric surplus(200/day), and lift 3 times a week full body. Much appreciate your responses. Have a great day.
Click to expand...
All blood work is different in their parameters per Province as in NMOL/L or PG/ML. Often if is different by lab in the same province too. Am I misreading your blood work or is your free test very low?
I am not a fan of full body workouts unless I am short on time for a few months and you have no choice. Even breaking up upper/lower body or hitting 2 body parts a day if you can only workout three days a week may have better results. I can't train more than 4 times a week or I will end up injured - pending I push it hard in the gym. I prefer short/hard workouts like @Funnyman said if trying to bulk/grow. You don't need to kill yourself with 12-16 working sets per body part. Mobility work, warm up, few warm up sets and a few working sets per exercise. Sometimes less is more.
It isn't just a caloric surplus - a good diet with the right foods at the right time are important. Diet is more important than training or as important. You can train your ass off but if you don't give the muscles fuel to grow you won't or you will end up with an injury as you can't recover.
 
Goldenrod said:
All blood work is different in their parameters per Province as in NMOL/L or PG/ML. Often if is different by lab in the same province too. Am I misreading your blood work or is your free test very low?
I am not a fan of full body workouts unless I am short on time for a few months and you have no choice. Even breaking up upper/lower body or hitting 2 body parts a day if you can only workout three days a week may have better results. I can't train more than 4 times a week or I will end up injured - pending I push it hard in the gym. I prefer short/hard workouts like @Funnyman said if trying to bulk/grow. You don't need to kill yourself with 12-16 working sets per body part. Mobility work, warm up, few warm up sets and a few working sets per exercise. Sometimes less is more.
It isn't just a caloric surplus - a good diet with the right foods at the right time are important. Diet is more important than training or as important. You can train your ass off but if you don't give the muscles fuel to grow you won't or you will end up with an injury as you can't recover.
Click to expand...
So what I've been told, and what I've read is that free testosterone should be between 2-3%. I'm just over 2%, so I guess that's normal. I am looking into ways to raise it though. I've been struggling with the idea of going to a 4 day upper/lower split. I used to do that and I enjoyed it, but work/life dictated a reduced gym schedule, hence the 3 day full body. It's definitely something I'm considering again though.
 
Southpaw72 said:
So what I've been told, and what I've read is that free testosterone should be between 2-3%. I'm just over 2%, so I guess that's normal. I am looking into ways to raise it though. I've been struggling with the idea of going to a 4 day upper/lower split. I used to do that and I enjoyed it, but work/life dictated a reduced gym schedule, hence the 3 day full body. It's definitely something I'm considering again though.
Click to expand...
Hi @Southpaw72 - I am not reading the %, I am looking at the number: Free test level - 0.612 nmol/L.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but that appears very low compared to what I understand normal parameters to be.
 
Goldenrod said:
Hi @Southpaw72 - I am not reading the %, I am looking at the number: Free test level - 0.612 nmol/L.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but that appears very low compared to what I understand normal parameters to be.
Click to expand...
I thought the same thing, but when I inquired, I was told it was fine. That's one of the reasons I posted my bloodwork here. Apparently Boron can help increase free testosterone, but I'm not big on just swallowing whatever the internet tells me, so to speak.
 
Southpaw72 said:
For context, 52m, on TRT for almost 5 years. 4 years on Androgel 1%, and the last 11 months on Test Cyp, 100mg/week IM. 6'1", 178lbs, with last(1 month ago)Dexa at 16.8%bf. My numbers from last blood work below:

Total test level - 27.9
Free test level - 0.612 nmol/L = 2.19 %
Bioavailable test - 14 nmol/L = 50.2 %
PSA - 2.03
Hemocrit - .49
SHBG - 37
Fasted glucose - 5.2

I trust the clinic, but would love to have anyone's else's take on these numbers. I'm still trying to build muscle, am in a slight caloric surplus(200/day), and lift 3 times a week full body. Much appreciate your responses. Have a great day.
Click to expand...
My thoughts in short form-
Bloodwork for hormones when using exogenous T is pretty much useless without more information. I won't usually even comment if I don't have your pinning schedule for the last month or so and time/day of your last plus time/day the bloods were pulled. Not that my opinion means anymore than anybody else but if you post that I'd comment further. Levels change pretty fast.

@Goldenrod just hit my next point as I type this, too add to that - ignore the percentage unless it's absurdly low. The free total itself initially looks low that probably does need attention, see his and @Funnyman 's posts. What you've been told and read is probably for normal or average men.
My wild guess is that you want to be better than average or normal men. That might just require a higher total T ;)

Another addon, the way the variety of reference ranges are arrived at is stupid, makes no sense to me and nobody has ever explained to me why it would. I've posted how it all works in a few threads here, search here or google if you wish.
 
gondar1 said:
My thoughts in short form-
Bloodwork for hormones when using exogenous T is pretty much useless without more information. I won't usually even comment if I don't have your pinning schedule for the last month or so and time/day of your last plus time/day the bloods were pulled. Not that my opinion means anymore than anybody else but if you post that I'd comment further. Levels change pretty fast.

@Goldenrod just hit my next point as I type this, too add to that - ignore the percentage unless it's absurdly low. The free total itself initially looks low that probably does need attention, see his and @Funnyman 's posts. What you've been told and read is probably for normal or average men.
My wild guess is that you want to be better than average or normal men. That might just require a higher total T ;)

Another addon, the way the variety of reference ranges are arrived at is stupid, makes no sense to me and nobody has ever explained to me why it would. I've posted how it all works in a few threads here, search here or google if you wish.
Click to expand...
I pin once a week, test cyp, always Sunday at 1pm, 100mg IM(in my quads, I alternate each week left to right). That has been the schedule for 10 months now. My results from blood work have always been done as two draws, one full day apart. I have blood drawn Saturday mornings at 0730, and then Monday mornings at 0730, and always fasted. The results I'm given are an average of the two draws, according to the clinic. When I asked, the results of the two have always been very close. Blood work has been every 3 months since beginning on the injections, with the last bloodwork being just over a month ago. Also, the first bloodwork taken by this clinic while still on the gel, had my total test at 1.6. Yes, that low on Androgel. That's why the clinic started me on the test cyp immediately. Sorry, that's all the info I have.
 
Southpaw72 said:
I pin once a week, test cyp, always Sunday at 1pm, 100mg IM(in my quads, I alternate each week left to right). That has been the schedule for 10 months now. My results from blood work have always been done as two draws, one full day apart. I have blood drawn Saturday mornings at 0730, and then Monday mornings at 0730, and always fasted. The results I'm given are an average of the two draws, according to the clinic. When I asked, the results of the two have always been very close. Blood work has been every 3 months since beginning on the injections, with the last bloodwork being just over a month ago. Also, the first bloodwork taken by this clinic while still on the gel, had my total test at 1.6. Yes, that low on Androgel. That's why the clinic started me on the test cyp immediately. Sorry, that's all the info I have.
Click to expand...
Don't be sorry about the amount of info, that is fantastic data. It paints a picture of what's going on which is all you can ask for.

BUT, unfortunately I've never seen it done that way so I won't be able to comment. Someone else here may well be able to understand it but to me it's not useful due to time to peak and SHBG binding time etc. being muddied. Makes no sense to me, probably just some sort of proprietary in house thing to keep you dependent on them, call me cynical. IF you could get just the Saturday results from any of the last 6 months or so things would be MUCH more clear, at least for me. I don't see why the would not give you that if you ask. Actually unless there is something funky going on that info legally belongs to you. Sorry, it would be somewhat of a wild guess at this point.

Other thoughts that you didn't ask for ;) -

I like E3.5D and bloodwork right before a shot (at the trough) as the standard. Lots of discussion about frequency here, opinions vary.
Without getting into the details right now if I were you and wanted to stay on true TRT my best guess would be to bump up to 115-120 a week ie 60 Every 3.5 days, again opinions vary. But if you really want to build some muscle.... well, you know. Hardly anybody here will usually push for anyone in your situation to go all in though, myself included
 
Goldenrod said:
Hi @Southpaw72 - I am not reading the %, I am looking at the number: Free test level - 0.612 nmol/L.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but that appears very low compared to what I understand normal parameters to be.
Click to expand...
The lab I use has reference range of like 20-81 but it's free androgen so I assume it's measuring dht as well, mine is way above high normal. But my total test is on the lower end. My shbg is pretty low and that makes a difference with free androgen index.
 
Negan said:
The lab I use has reference range of like 20-81 but it's free androgen so I assume it's measuring dht as well, mine is way above high normal. But my total test is on the lower end. My shbg is pretty low and that makes a difference with free androgen index.
Click to expand...
My total test is often in the normal range or just above like yours but my free test is often through the roof when I add in a DHT compound even at a low dose over an extended period. If I add in 100 mg of Primo to my TRT - my free test is always sky high after a month. Thanks for sharing your numbers above.
 
Goldenrod said:
My total test is often in the normal range or just above like yours but my free test is often through the roof when I add in a DHT compound even at a low dose over an extended period. If I add in 100 mg of Primo to my TRT - my free test is always sky high after a month. Thanks for sharing your numbers above.
Click to expand...
Primo will drop my e2 pretty low but free androgen is similar to mast. Either one drops my total t to the low end I can actually use more test to be closer to the middle. On 100t alone I'm closer to 28. The dht lowers shbg so total test drops and free test rises.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top