N2GUARD
- Thread starter moleman
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moleman
Active member
Yea well it's loaded with lots of stuff for the liver. There's other products but this seems to get the best feed back
I know this is not your question but, I don't like this stuff, not sure if I'd even take it for free. I've written about it on here before I think. I looked at it a long time ago and figured it was 5-6 times more expensive than you could build yourself with a better profile. At a quick glance it appears to be about the same. If you do find it based on their website's USD = shipping etc it's likely gonna cost you about $150 CDN a month. Lots of the stuff in there can be found at a better dose in a mid level multivitamin.
Also had some weird interaction with the originator and heard that known scumbag and snakeoil/SARMS pusher Dylan Schmegly or whatever his name is is pumping this stuff too, that's enough for me to stay away.
We all make our own choices of course but i feel like it would be irresponsible not to mention that I think there are better ways to go about this**
**EDIT- I just went and read your intro post if your plan is still what's in that post Imma double and triple down on that their are better ways. Safety first and consideration of any health conditions of course but...
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@Funnyman - It contains:
It is sold for about $100 but will cost more to get to your door but add up the cost of the products above individually and tell me when you get $150. I hate multi product bottles and don't believe for a minute they contain what they say they do - based on math alone it isn't possible if you look at the cost of all the products in some of them. I would rather pick the known supplements and have control of what I need vs. taking more of a multi product and getting more of everything. Just my opinion but save your money and if you are looking for specific protection - there are some great threads. I made a few, not that they are great, but protection on a budget and multiple threads of products with some science / double blind placebo studies behind them. @gondar1 - just for the record is IMO one of the wisest and experienced members here - are you saying you can buy these individually cheaper than this product? I am thinking the reverse and I also think there are much better products out there like Genuine Health Detox formula but that is my opinion. I looked at this years ago and started adding up the cost from Vitacost and Vitamart and recall getting to a point where buying all the products, which I don't want them all anyway as there are better options for many, and said this is expensive. They have testimonials from people from the Olympia / IFBB pros who claim its the best around - BS, they paid for their nod.
@moleman - if you are taking this product for a specific reason I am confident there is enough knowledge here to point you in the direction of individual products that have proven benefits. Some of the ingredients in this mix are great if they are actually there. Just person opinion - other than Genuine Health Detox formula, I don't use mixes.
One person's opinion which doesn't make it right but if you are looking for protection on a budget, most people kitchens are full of products/food which are excellent liver/kidney/lipid(heart) health products.
Sorry - if you already said why you are taking this to protect your organs - I didn't read it or can't remember doing so lol.
take care,
GR
| Need To Build Muscle N2 Guard 210 Capsules | |||||
| Serving Size:7 Capsules | |||||
| Servings Per Container: 30 | |||||
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| *Percentage Daily Values are based on a 2000 calorie diet | |||||
| **Daily Values not Established | |||||
| Other ingredients: Gelatin, Soy Lecithin, Dicalcium Phosphate, Silica, Magnesium Stearate, Starch, Gum Arabic, Titanium Dioxide, Microcrystalline Cellulose, FD&C Yellow#5, FD&C Yellow #6. | |||||
| Allergen Warning: Contains Fish. |
@moleman - if you are taking this product for a specific reason I am confident there is enough knowledge here to point you in the direction of individual products that have proven benefits. Some of the ingredients in this mix are great if they are actually there. Just person opinion - other than Genuine Health Detox formula, I don't use mixes.
One person's opinion which doesn't make it right but if you are looking for protection on a budget, most people kitchens are full of products/food which are excellent liver/kidney/lipid(heart) health products.
Sorry - if you already said why you are taking this to protect your organs - I didn't read it or can't remember doing so lol.
take care,
GR
moleman
Active member
Thanks, I like to be well informed but am human and make errors as well.
Happy for your reply
moleman
Active member
I was going to learn more about it and add it into my pct, as I'm a planner and will have everything ready to go day 1
I personally like this one then I add Tudca with it.
https://xtremeline.ca/products/5-nutrition-liver-organ-defender-30-servings
https://xtremeline.ca/products/5-nutrition-liver-organ-defender-30-servings
moleman
Active member
Thanks ill take a look at options
Great post, encapsulating many of my own thoughts. I'm not sure if this is a question for me or not from the way it was worded but I'll clarify with numbers that may be off but ring a bell in my mind. At that time it was about 60 bucks to my door plus any fees at the border if it got flagged. To be fair it looks like they've added a bunch more stuff, I don't necessarily think that's a good thing though. I totaled up all* the ingredients but dropped a few that I felt were useless/waste of time especially taking into consideration the waaaay sub-clinical doses or sketchy science backing them.
To be very clear if you know me you know that I like to attack things from all angles, "polypharmacy" might be a fitting term in this case. There are limits though, some of these doses are so tiny the might as well be at homeopathic type ghost of a ghost levels which to put it mildly I'd say I do not buy into.
Most controversial one I dropped was likely Milk Thistle, reason being to this day I have still never seen a well done study on humans proving it does anything for liver health that makes it worth paying for. Maybe there is new evidence but from what I've seen even the best studies back then were full of phrases like - May, could, suggests, might, possibly etc
Pinheads worth of some apple skin polypeptide type of shit were also dropped, I got the feeling they were throwing an apple in the vat and then putting every chemical name of the things that make up an apple on the label on the label - "comprehensive" right?
This formula posted looks possibly even worse in that regard - 300mg of NAC? A day? Way Underdosed IMO. 10mcg CoQ10? Ridiculous! I probably get more than that when I lick my steak before I put it on the grill.
But I digress, in the end I figured I could buy all the stuff that made a difference for about 10-12 bucks
I don't see any errors, you are asking good questions. Looks like good ole due diligence to me.
Everything I've said just boils down to my opinion and personal experience as is most of what you'll read here or most everywhere and that includes a lot of the science we can get our hands on, even the well run studies. Quite often what they write in the conclusions section is not the same conclusion others make when examining the data.
And Goldy is being modest, there are a bunch of good threads on this here, his contributions are top tier amongst them. I and many other consider him the go to guy.
Kind words and another good post @gondar1 - I posted and no idea if I can find it but will look. They did a liver study albeit they can't do it on humans giving toxic substances as no one would ever take part and it would not be approved; (I believe) the most frequent animal used - Winstrol rats - a liver toxic substance and milk thistle. Catch is I am sure it is the top level fresh milk thistle. Unfortunately, by itself the bioavailability is low so they started mixing it with phosphatidylcholine and the rats given the milk thistle combo / and may have just been milk thistle (can't recall) lived and the ones without any died from liver failure.
I agree - it is not in my top list for liver protection but I don't discount it as having some benefit. I used what was referred as European milk thistle last as it was mixed with a small amount of PC to increase the bioavailability. Question would be was it the PC that had more of an impact? No one can know that answer unless they did milk thistle, a control ground, and a milk thistle and PC group. Can't recall as it was years ago.
I can't recall how many rats, if it was double blind, etc. but I will find it. There are tons of studies to read but the quality of the study matters and the number of animals used which you point out. All I recall is the end result was positive - but PC is a great liver supplement with multiple studies behind it. The most relevant is the one with baboons which is cruel as we turned them into alcoholics and all that received choline rich diets lived and no cirrhosis and the ones without developed cirrhosis. Of interest, when the choline was stopped - the baboons that had healthy livers developed cirrhosis and we know what happens next if you don't get a transplant. Kind of makes sense as I believe they kept giving them alcohol but I can't confirm that without reading the study again.
I am not disagreeing with you, albeit it is in every naturopathic book as a liver remedy but not as popular as it once was. I would rather take ginger, SAMe, NAC, or PC.
@moleman - you didn't make any errors. Discussions like this are good for the forum. Different opinions and asking about different products, that isn't an error - that is doing your research and is smart. Keep posting questions like this about products as there are a bunch here who believe there is benefit to non pharmaceutical remedies. Guys like @Funnyman is older and has done it all and uses Carleson's fish oil for a wealth of benefits (in particular BP). He competed and clearly cares about his health.
Did a quick search and your conclusions make sense @gondar1 - not enough controls, some studies are better than others, some studies show no improvement in mortality in humans, and some studies show improvements - I can't find the study I am looking for but the ones I have in my tickle trunk (for what they are worth):
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
https://www.longdom.org/open-access...antioxidant-antoxsilyma-2157-7609-1000224.pdf (Note antox is included in this study - antox is not well known and here is a list of the ingredients in most antox products - https://sallypharmacies.com/en/antox-30-tablets)
www.mayoclinic.org
Not what I was looking for but don't have time to do a deep dive searching this morning but will. I don't think we should negate the potential benefits but the quality of the supplement is a big factor. You could be taking harvested MT that has been sitting in a capsule for 1 year vs. fresh MT / tested for potency for the studies which is why I am very particular about the companies I buy from. A quick search and you will find companies saying 500 mg of Vitamin c and when tested it is 250 (just an example).
These links are not meant to disprove your comments as I agree - I rarely take MT anymore as I get much better benefits from approx 5 liver supplements I use on an off. For example - real licorice root - tastes good and is a good liver protecting product if the evidence I read is accurate - and that is the catch. It can take you an hour to read a study to find out how good it was, some of the terminology they use requires grabbing a medical book, etc.
Long story short, I believe there are benefits to MT, I will always reach for another product I understand the mechanism of protection / glutathione & inflammation hence I sit on the fence LOL.
Milk Thistle: Effects on Liver Disease and Cirrhosis and Clinical Adverse Effects: Summary - AHRQ Evidence Report Summaries - NCBI Bookshelf
This evidence report details a systematic review summarizing clinical studies of milk thistle in humans. The scientific name for milk thistle is Silybum marianum. It is a member of the aster or daisy family and has been used by ancient physicians and herbalists to treat a range of liver and...
Milk thistle
Learn about the potential benefits of milk thistle and how it is used to treat liver conditions.
www.mayoclinic.org
Not what I was looking for but don't have time to do a deep dive searching this morning but will. I don't think we should negate the potential benefits but the quality of the supplement is a big factor. You could be taking harvested MT that has been sitting in a capsule for 1 year vs. fresh MT / tested for potency for the studies which is why I am very particular about the companies I buy from. A quick search and you will find companies saying 500 mg of Vitamin c and when tested it is 250 (just an example).
These links are not meant to disprove your comments as I agree - I rarely take MT anymore as I get much better benefits from approx 5 liver supplements I use on an off. For example - real licorice root - tastes good and is a good liver protecting product if the evidence I read is accurate - and that is the catch. It can take you an hour to read a study to find out how good it was, some of the terminology they use requires grabbing a medical book, etc.
Long story short, I believe there are benefits to MT, I will always reach for another product I understand the mechanism of protection / glutathione & inflammation hence I sit on the fence LOL.