creatine and the liver

animal-inside

Well-known member
Trusted Member
In my private hormone clinic appointment today I was told my high ALT/ AST numbers are very likely due to my creatine use. 5grams a day off and on for about 5 years now.

My ALT values have always been on the very low end until last spring they popped up to above acceptable range. I got them tested again (along with my AST) and ALT is lower now, but not within range. AST is above range.

The clinic is insisting its my creatine use.

I agree to stop taking it for 8 weeks and retest ALT/AST.


From what I have read, very high doses of creatine can be hard on the liver and in rare cases low/moderate doses over long periods of time can cause liver damage.

Any thoughts?
 
Everything about bodybuilding is hard on the liver from the drugs to the food to the supplements we take .
Honestly some guys might not agree with me , but if you already eat lots of red meat you don’t really need to supplement creatine.
I don’t know the exact numbers , but my mela plan has 7 oz steak every day. I’m probably getting all the creatine I need just from that steak. And if we are on gear , the question is do you really need creatine? I mean you can take it and it may have a slight impact , but compared to anabolics it’s not much .
If it is creatine , just drop it for a while who cares let your body heal. Bodybuilders never had creatine before and they got fucking huge , creatine didn’t even become a thing until the 90s


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Everything about bodybuilding is hard on the liver from the drugs to the food to the supplements we take .
Honestly some guys might not agree with me , but if you already eat lots of red meat you don’t really need to supplement creatine.
I don’t know the exact numbers , but my mela plan has 7 oz steak every day. I’m probably getting all the creatine I need just from that steak. And if we are on gear , the question is do you really need creatine? I mean you can take it and it may have a slight impact , but compared to anabolics it’s not much .
If it is creatine , just drop it for a while who cares let your body heal. Bodybuilders never had creatine before and they got fucking huge , creatine didn’t even become a thing until the 90s


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creatine has many other benefits aside from the gym. I started taking it again after not for 15 years when my doctor sent me home with articles to read about its positive affect on your cognitive function and your natural creatine production declines steeply in middle age.
 
I'm not sure where all y'all are getting your info from but I don't recall ever seeing any solid science about creatine hurting liver or kidneys. Some studies that use wording like "suggests possible", "may affect", "possibly adverse" and a bunch of bro anecdotes which I've always assumed had their base in parroted info.
There are in the neighbourhood of 3000 studies done on the stuff and I've literally read more than half of them, some in their entirety and at least the conclusions.
One more time I will say I'm always open to learning and I do look forward to hearing about @animal-inside 's retest. I'm no expert on the ALT and AST tests or how they work or are interpreted but the mountain of studies certainly "suggests" (lol) this is some pretty safe stuff. Frankly I'd be suspect of any medical practitioner suggesting otherwise - "Is Dr X getting his info from reddit?"

Educate me fella's!
 
In my private hormone clinic appointment today I was told my high ALT/ AST numbers are very likely due to my creatine use. 5grams a day off and on for about 5 years now.

My ALT values have always been on the very low end until last spring they popped up to above acceptable range. I got them tested again (along with my AST) and ALT is lower now, but not within range. AST is above range.

The clinic is insisting its my creatine use.

I agree to stop taking it for 8 weeks and retest ALT/AST.


From what I have read, very high doses of creatine can be hard on the liver and in rare cases low/moderate doses over long periods of time can cause liver damage.

Any thoughts?
Albeit, it is possible as there are cases of liver injury (specific types) due to creatine usage I doubt very much that is the culprit. Keep in mind - it is suspected to be from creatine because that is the only supplement the patient admits to taking.
Just an excerpt from our friend the internet albeit I don't have the paper it was taken from, " reduce the homo-cysteine production in liver, diminishing fat accumulation and resulting in beneficial effects in fatty liver and non-alcoholic liver disease."

In healthy people creatine should not impact your kidney function but if you have kidney damage, it may negatively impact your kidney function but so will a shit ton of the things we eat.
I have posted papers/studies on the health benefits of creatine in the health section. As a general rule, I don't think it will impact the average person negatively. @ajfromab is accurate - if eating specific foods, we are already getting a lot of creatine.

The only tidbit that pops to mind is creatine 'can' reduce your level sam-e and since sam-e is good for your liver, in that respect it could have a negative impact. If using standard doses, I won't give it a second thought and will continue to use creatine from time to time.

The issue with this system the doctor is using is your liver enzymes may drop, with no real explanation in the same manner as your liver enzymes could be higher when you are fighting off a virus but don't feel sick, and they are normal now and the doctor states it is creatine when it isn't.
Doc's sometimes go by one test and I'm very ascertive with doctors but not rude. I want multiple repeat tests to prove the theory and if they won't help me, I will move on to Maple and present with a symptom that requires the blood work to check my liver or whatever organ(s) I want tested. I use to pay for Letsgetchecked (can't in Canada anymore) and recently one of our local Naturopaths can order blood tests so I use her now. That being said, with the amount of taxes I pay and not having a doctor, I won't lose any sleep about using Maple to get the blood tests I want. Respectfully, to most doctors you can get almost any blood test you want if you tell them the symptoms that require blood tests prior to any other modalities to determine if there is an issue.
 
I'm not sure where all y'all are getting your info from but I don't recall ever seeing any solid science about creatine hurting liver or kidneys. Some studies that use wording like "suggests possible", "may affect", "possibly adverse" and a bunch of bro anecdotes which I've always assumed had their base in parroted info.
There are in the neighbourhood of 3000 studies done on the stuff and I've literally read more than half of them, some in their entirety and at least the conclusions.
One more time I will say I'm always open to learning and I do look forward to hearing about @animal-inside 's retest. I'm no expert on the ALT and AST tests or how they work or are interpreted but the mountain of studies certainly "suggests" (lol) this is some pretty safe stuff. Frankly I'd be suspect of any medical practitioner suggesting otherwise - "Is Dr X getting his info from reddit?"

Educate me fella's!

I gave the doctor the same speech bascially.. She was adamanat it was very likely my creatine use regardelss of what I said.. Since liver damage from creatine was a new thing for me to hear, I agreed to drop it and see what the test shows. Then I went home and found some stuff about it poassibly damaging liver... Who knows I guess? I alwys thought it was oen of those things that was perfecrlyty safe except for peoople with bad kidney's should be careful.

To address @Goldenrod.. I disclosed all my use of eveyrhitng, my diet and my supplements.. It was frustrating for me since I weote on the form and told the lady I was taking 5mg of a statin.. She skimmed over that and said it was my creatine.. I had to bring it up 2 times that statins are known to damage liver before she would acknowlegde it could be the statin.. but still insisted its most likely creatine and thats what I need to drop and then retest..
 
This is the first thing I ever heard about creative before using it. That it's hard on the liver and should be cycled. Not sure where I heard it
 
I gave the doctor the same speech bascially.. She was adamanat it was very likely my creatine use regardelss of what I said.. Since liver damage from creatine was a new thing for me to hear, I agreed to drop it and see what the test shows. Then I went home and found some stuff about it poassibly damaging liver... Who knows I guess? I alwys thought it was oen of those things that was perfecrlyty safe except for peoople with bad kidney's should be careful.

To address @Goldenrod.. I disclosed all my use of eveyrhitng, my diet and my supplements.. It was frustrating for me since I weote on the form and told the lady I was taking 5mg of a statin.. She skimmed over that and said it was my creatine.. I had to bring it up 2 times that statins are known to damage liver before she would acknowlegde it could be the statin.. but still insisted its most likely creatine and thats what I need to drop and then retest..
First I hope whatever it is, it gets better and your enzymes go back to normal. Second, I think your doc is fixated on something and can't get it out of her head. She could be right but I doubt it.
I know people on statins and they have to get their liver enzymes tested every 3 months.
 
I have not heard nor seen any liver toxic effects, some folks mistake creatinine numbers for creatine, they are vastly different and creatinine may indicate muscle and inflammation damage kidney issues etc. I do not think it is remotely toxic on the liver. Creatine is also a super hydrater, and great to use when expelling minerals and water from sweat etc, it hydrates at a cellular level and that in and of itself has amazing benefits for health, i use it daily and take mini breaks now and then but mostly i am on creatine and as animal inside mentioned there are great benefits from using creatine for certain.

Kidneys is a confusion, not hard on the kidneys, it is one of the safest, if not the safest supps we can use that actually has benefits in muscle building and endurance and hydration etc...The hydration enhances cognitive function, blah, blah, i will stop now...
 
Everything about bodybuilding is hard on the liver from the drugs to the food to the supplements we take .
Honestly some guys might not agree with me , but if you already eat lots of red meat you don’t really need to supplement creatine.
I don’t know the exact numbers , but my mela plan has 7 oz steak every day. I’m probably getting all the creatine I need just from that steak. And if we are on gear , the question is do you really need creatine? I mean you can take it and it may have a slight impact , but compared to anabolics it’s not much .
If it is creatine , just drop it for a while who cares let your body heal. Bodybuilders never had creatine before and they got fucking huge , creatine didn’t even become a thing until the 90s


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Yeah when I started taking gear, I dropped the creatine. Figured it would have such a minor impact at that point, and I didn't think I would want extra water retention.
 
I gave the doctor the same speech bascially.. She was adamanat it was very likely my creatine use regardelss of what I said.. Since liver damage from creatine was a new thing for me to hear, I agreed to drop it and see what the test shows. Then I went home and found some stuff about it poassibly damaging liver... Who knows I guess? I alwys thought it was oen of those things that was perfecrlyty safe except for peoople with bad kidney's should be careful.

To address @Goldenrod.. I disclosed all my use of eveyrhitng, my diet and my supplements.. It was frustrating for me since I weote on the form and told the lady I was taking 5mg of a statin.. She skimmed over that and said it was my creatine.. I had to bring it up 2 times that statins are known to damage liver before she would acknowlegde it could be the statin.. but still insisted its most likely creatine and thats what I need to drop and then retest..
Couldn’t be the prescribed drug of course. 🤦‍♂️
 
First I hope whatever it is, it gets better and your enzymes go back to normal. Second, I think your doc is fixated on something and can't get it out of her head. She could be right but I doubt it.
I know people on statins and they have to get their liver enzymes tested every 3 months.
When my first ALT result came back high last spring that doctor had zero concerns and said it would likely come down because it could be from illness etc.. I pushed a bit and he agreed to do ultra sound since the only other thing he thought it might be from is fatty liver.. turned out it wasnt. To his credit he went through all possibliies like Hepetitis as well.

And this doctor was one of the ones that told me to take the 5mg statin
 
Couldn’t be the prescribed drug of course. 🤦‍♂️

I'll tell more of the story I guess since it liekly applies..

This was my first appoitnment with a private clinic and the lady I Was talking with was just getting my iformation/medical history.. but than she also decided what prescriptions they would try with me etc.. She's the one who insisted its creatine problem.. I figured out through our conversation she is NOT a doctor, jsut an employee.. She told me after we spoke a LP woudl call me to confirm "what we talked about"... So later that day a LP did call me and ask how my consutlation went and we quickly went over the plan they made for me.. I figured out the 2nd LP call is required to legally write those scripts since the first lady had no lisencing to do them. They found a loop hole to hire cheap labour to do most of the work and the liscensed people to oversee/confirm it. I asked the first lady if she was a docotr/LP and she said no, but she was a employee of the medical business at their clinic.

Anyways, she insisted her husband has permentatly damaged liver due to his creatine use because when he was in his 20/30 he used it all the time.. She admitted nothing was ever confirmed to cause his liver damage but thy are certain (they being husbagd and her) it was creatine use.

I did ask the LP if my high liver values could be the creatine or is it more liekly the statin. She said it coudl be either or, but more likely the statin or somethign else than the creatine, but it wouldn't hurt to drop the creatine to see what happens
 
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