About leucine

[ajfromab]

I’ve been reading a little more on leucine lately I’m trying to improve my supplements game here a bit .
I’ve had a few doctors I’ve read who have said 3 grams of leucine in the morning helps to initiate M-tor as well as begging inducing protein synthesis in the body .
As well as taking 2.5 grams post workout to further increase these effects .
Wondering if any of you guys practice this regularly and can comment on it , my knowledge of this is a bit hazy at best .

I’m drinking a blend of EAA and BCAA probably 3-4 times a day so I’m thinking maybe it’s overkill and what’s the point in adding it to the diet . But I could be wrong .
What you guys think


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[ironwill]

It does a lot of stuff foe folks that are natural. IMO, it does not offer much benefit for protein synthesis, preserving muscle mass and all the other things it is known for, if we are using gear. It is not a supplement for helping organs or protecting them when on gear etc.

IMO, i use this when off cycle and all has cleared, at that point i add in these types of tools, otherwise if enhanced, this just gives a more expensive urine. That is my thought and i have lots of experience using it on and off cycle, it was negligible on and off for me, but while on, no benefits imho..

 

[gondar1]

A personal fave of mine, for myself and others. I agree with @ironwill to a point but I'm a little more enthusiastic than he is about the results. I can certainly see where he's coming from, it doesn't exactly jump up and punch you in the face like Halo or a gram of caffeine might. Result will also be more subtle if ur cranking AAS. Protein synthesis and turnover has limitations even under the best circumstances and AAS is a big contributing factor so there is not much headroom left.

Pardon me if I mention some stuff you already know, bullets below. Info derived from studies, loose wording but I will state these points as if they were fact, please double check anything you have doubts about. Off the top of my head I think these are the important things.

There is a minimum that needs to be consumed before the switch is thrown to fire up the process - 3.5g for youngsters and 5g for olders (35+?)
The minimum leucine content can come from a supp or whole food.
Their must be sufficient building material (the EAA's) present to actually achieve P synthesis. Leucine is an EAA and serves as building material but we are discussing it's role in initiating the process here. This might be looked at something like hitting the start button (leucine) on a concrete mixer, that's great that you've got the barrel rolling but if it doesn't have paste and aggregate in it you can't build anything.
It turns out that to get the min leucine amount from a lot of whole food protein sources we consume you'd also be taking in around 30 g of total protein. I suspect that's where the Old School "30g protein at a time " thing stemmed from.
The main argument against standalone BCAA use is that the other two (Iso-leucine and Valine) work against Leucine and limit it's effectiveness. I can't recall if this is, or can be, overcome by consuming larger amounts of leucine but that would seem to be the case logically, having a bit of a brain fart here...
There is a limit to effective daily use 2(-3?) times I believe.

So the way I use it and recommend in a lot of cases is taking it 10-15 minutes before consuming a whole food protein source which in this case would include a shake. Intra or Post Workout seems most important in my mind too.
I like the idea of using the EAA's as the whole food as well though. I especially try to make sure I use it if I suspect the meal I am going to consume might be light on leucine or even total protein content. That mostly only happens these days when visiting with friends or something where I might have to pig out and steal all the meat and cheese from a charcuterie board or something. When I was younger and more serious A low protein situation would never happen.
That's all I got atm, please correct or question anything that seems off from y'alls research.

 

[ironwill]

A personal fave of mine, for myself and others. I agree with @ironwill to a point but I'm a little more enthusiastic than he is about the results. I can certainly see where he's coming from, it doesn't exactly jump up and punch you in the face like Halo or a gram of caffeine might. Result will also be more subtle if ur cranking AAS. Protein synthesis and turnover has limitations even under the best circumstances and AAS is a big contributing factor so there is not much headroom left.

Pardon me if I mention some stuff you already know, bullets below. Info derived from studies, loose wording but I will state these points as if they were fact, please double check anything you have doubts about. Off the top of my head I think these are the important things.

There is a minimum that needs to be consumed before the switch is thrown to fire up the process - 3.5g for youngsters and 5g for olders (35+?)
The minimum leucine content can come from a supp or whole food.
Their must be sufficient building material (the EAA's) present to actually achieve P synthesis. Leucine is an EAA and serves as building material but we are discussing it's role in initiating the process here. This might be looked at something like hitting the start button (leucine) on a concrete mixer, that's great that you've got the barrel rolling but if it doesn't have paste and aggregate in it you can't build anything.
It turns out that to get the min leucine amount from a lot of whole food protein sources we consume you'd also be taking in around 30 g of total protein. I suspect that's where the Old School "30g protein at a time " thing stemmed from.
The main argument against standalone BCAA use is that the other two (Iso-leucine and Valine) work against Leucine and limit it's effectiveness. I can't recall if this is, or can be, overcome by consuming larger amounts of leucine but that would seem to be the case logically, having a bit of a brain fart here...
There is a limit to effective daily use 2(-3?) times I believe.

So the way I use it and recommend in a lot of cases is taking it 10-15 minutes before consuming a whole food protein source which in this case would include a shake. Intra or Post Workout seems most important in my mind too.
I like the idea of using the EAA's as the whole food as well though. I especially try to make sure I use it if I suspect the meal I am going to consume might be light on leucine or even total protein content. That mostly only happens these days when visiting with friends or something where I might have to pig out and steal all the meat and cheese from a charcuterie board or something. When I was younger and more serious A low protein situation would never happen.
That's all I got atm, please correct or question anything that seems off from y'alls research.

Excellent post!! I may grab some leucine and give it another whirl..Any little bit helps, not as much as it used to when i was focusing on competing, but ever .5% or % point adds up. I as well have not been in a low protein scenario. I look forward to any other info you guys have, i am about to embark on a goo journey here in next two weeks so i am going to try and bump up the additions to make it go from good to great.

 

[ajfromab]

A personal fave of mine, for myself and others. I agree with @ironwill to a point but I'm a little more enthusiastic than he is about the results. I can certainly see where he's coming from, it doesn't exactly jump up and punch you in the face like Halo or a gram of caffeine might. Result will also be more subtle if ur cranking AAS. Protein synthesis and turnover has limitations even under the best circumstances and AAS is a big contributing factor so there is not much headroom left.

Pardon me if I mention some stuff you already know, bullets below. Info derived from studies, loose wording but I will state these points as if they were fact, please double check anything you have doubts about. Off the top of my head I think these are the important things.

There is a minimum that needs to be consumed before the switch is thrown to fire up the process - 3.5g for youngsters and 5g for olders (35+?)
The minimum leucine content can come from a supp or whole food.
Their must be sufficient building material (the EAA's) present to actually achieve P synthesis. Leucine is an EAA and serves as building material but we are discussing it's role in initiating the process here. This might be looked at something like hitting the start button (leucine) on a concrete mixer, that's great that you've got the barrel rolling but if it doesn't have paste and aggregate in it you can't build anything.
It turns out that to get the min leucine amount from a lot of whole food protein sources we consume you'd also be taking in around 30 g of total protein. I suspect that's where the Old School "30g protein at a time " thing stemmed from.
The main argument against standalone BCAA use is that the other two (Iso-leucine and Valine) work against Leucine and limit it's effectiveness. I can't recall if this is, or can be, overcome by consuming larger amounts of leucine but that would seem to be the case logically, having a bit of a brain fart here...
There is a limit to effective daily use 2(-3?) times I believe.

So the way I use it and recommend in a lot of cases is taking it 10-15 minutes before consuming a whole food protein source which in this case would include a shake. Intra or Post Workout seems most important in my mind too.
I like the idea of using the EAA's as the whole food as well though. I especially try to make sure I use it if I suspect the meal I am going to consume might be light on leucine or even total protein content. That mostly only happens these days when visiting with friends or something where I might have to pig out and steal all the meat and cheese from a charcuterie board or something. When I was younger and more serious A low protein situation would never happen.
That's all I got atm, please correct or question anything that seems off from y'alls research.

Great info Gondar .
As I said I’m taking this stuff 3-4 times a day

Do you think adding a leucine supp would be overkill or what ?


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[gondar1]

Great info Gondar .
As I said I’m taking this stuff 3-4 times a day

Do you think adding a leucine supp would be overkill or what ?


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Among the things to consider - Is cost efficiency a concern? Are you meeting the minimums of leucine itself and the EAA's from my first post? What kind of time period are you taking that in over? Day long sipping for example may leave you shy of reaching critical levels.

IIRC that stuff is pretty tasty so even though it should be the among the lowest importance of the considerations cause we are so Gawd Damn hardcore do you simply just enjoy it and/or find it convenient? Enjoyment of life has some merit too lol.

How does the rest of your diet figure in to all of this?
Depending on how things like that all balance out in the end perhaps dropping back to 2x a day and adjusting the dosage up or adding a scoop of leucine might be solid considerations.
I generally have just dry scooped it, timing it as mentioned in the first post with regard to other protein consumption. Also regarding timing as mentioned I feel like Post WO might be the best but I also think going with the last pre-sleep meal deserves consideration too "you grow while you are resting, etc"

 

[ajfromab]

Among the things to consider - Is cost efficiency a concern? Are you meeting the minimums of leucine itself and the EAA's from my first post? What kind of time period are you taking that in over? Day long sipping for example may leave you shy of reaching critical levels.

IIRC that stuff is pretty tasty so even though it should be the among the lowest importance of the considerations cause we are so Gawd Damn hardcore do you simply just enjoy it and/or find it convenient? Enjoyment of life has some merit too lol.

How does the rest of your diet figure in to all of this?
Depending on how things like that all balance out in the end perhaps dropping back to 2x a day and adjusting the dosage up or adding a scoop of leucine might be solid considerations.
I generally have just dry scooped it, timing it as mentioned in the first post with regard to other protein consumption. Also regarding timing as mentioned I feel like Post WO might be the best but I also think going with the last pre-sleep meal deserves consideration too "you grow while you are resting, etc"

It’s an enojoyment thing man . I don’t drink juice or pop or anything tasty . The only other thing I drink is black coffee and water those are the three things I drink it’s nice to have something tasty, and it has eeas and Bcaas in it so I can justify it as an ok to drink thing without guilt .

So
Maybe I can start with 3 grams leucine in the am and that should hit the levels you describe I believe?


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[gondar1]

It’s an enojoyment thing man . I don’t drink juice or pop or anything tasty . The only other thing I drink is black coffee and water those are the three things I drink it’s nice to have something tasty, and it has eeas and Bcaas in it so I can justify it as an ok to drink thing without guilt .

So
Maybe I can start with 3 grams leucine in the am and that should hit the levels you describe I believe?


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Combined with the ghost product or food? Yes.
Gotta seek the spike. That's why I use the "flip the switch" analogy. You are nearly at 35 yo right? I'd be going for the 5g total. I'm fairly confident that 35yo is the right number because I always thought this was odd and it sticks out. Might be that the study I'm thinking of was run with two groups and there was some kind of natural, if not on purpose, division in the ages.