Your First Cycle

I really don’t understand your reply my friend??? You said it was more cautious but now you say it’s not more cautious
being "more cautious" is relative to the proposed action. doing test only then stacking is more cautious than starting off on a stack. primo only is more cautious than test cycles. less primo is more cautious than more primo. semantic discussions make my head hurt
 
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@Cumminstech2 i have a question for you ,so for me for instance when estrogen gets higher, i tickle a bit and get red under eyes, and water retension only on stomach, so is what your saying if i add other compounds ,my feelings of lets just say estrogen will be the same across the board? But cant prolactin issues be a similar feeling as estrogen? So hiw would you know without bloods, where as im pretty dam sure i know when estrogen is high because i started first 2 weeks test only.
 
Sorry I'm late.

You already answered the question in one of the earlier posts though. There are probably lots of minor reasons that could be argued but they all lead back to fitting under the umbrella of the main one.

Test is one of the naturally occurring "PED's" and as such lends itself to be well and simply used for various enhancements. We know a fair bit about it so it feels safe, we can tell ourselves we are just bumping up the levels of something natural. Being naturally produced takes away one variable from the equation compared to something foreign to the system. It's the simplest AAS to apply as a therapy. etc etc All of these could be easily argued for and against by someone with a decent grasp on the subject matter so I won't hang my hat on that part.

I recommend it because of the simplicity and familiarity factors. It's the King of Male Hormones most other AAS are derived from it and have side effects that are harder to follow, measure and understand. None of that matters if you happen to be one of those lucky fellas that can just slam whatever compounds without any (apparent) complications. But if you are not that lucky taking a systematic, logical, scientific approach can save a TON of grief.

I could give you a bunch of examples of how we use that approach in all kinds of other situations from cooking to mechanical work, electrical work, bomb making, even sex :) , I'm sure you know what I mean though.

So yeah, Test first so you know how you will react to Test. Barring some real bad shit happening inside you it's always gonna be a factor.

Didn't really come to debate though, you said something along the lines of 'I only ever hear one reason - so you know how you react to test'.
I agree, that's basically it and that one reason is a strong enough one for me. I would even agree that holding back on other compounds is likely holding back on physical development in most cases (how much is another topic) but there are advantageous and disadvantages to both ways and as always it's a personal thing.

Cheers

I appreciate the thoughtful response.
I am not saying it’s the end of the world if this is what one plans to do.

Now I could say why not just run primo only for your first cycle? It’s very safe and well tolerated. One argument against that would be it can shut you down. Ok yes but very slowly. 20 some years ago we avoided test most of the time. It was considered a dirty drug because of the sides. Keep in mind AI wasn’t readily available.
With that point in mind though, some people need AI on 500mgs of test. So now you are actually using 2 drugs. If you ran 3-400mgs of primo for a first cycle that’s all you would need. You will likely be side effect free and by the time you are shit down you are probably coming off anyhow.
So why don’t we do primo only cycles to see how we do on primo first???!


In reality shutting your natural test down with a strictly anabolic cycle could be an entirely different topic we could discuss. Back in the day many guys ran purely anabolics and never had any issues in regards to shutting down
 
I appreciate the thoughtful response.
I am not saying it’s the end of the world if this is what one plans to do.

Now I could say why not just run primo only for your first cycle? It’s very safe and well tolerated. One argument against that would be it can shut you down. Ok yes but very slowly. 20 some years ago we avoided test most of the time. It was considered a dirty drug because of the sides. Keep in mind AI wasn’t readily available.
With that point in mind though, some people need AI on 500mgs of test. So now you are actually using 2 drugs. If you ran 3-400mgs of primo for a first cycle that’s all you would need. You will likely be side effect free and by the time you are shit down you are probably coming off anyhow.
So why don’t we do primo only cycles to see how we do on primo first???!


In reality shutting your natural test down with a strictly anabolic cycle could be an entirely different topic we could discuss. Back in the day many guys ran purely anabolics and never had any issues in regards to shutting down

I'd rather see someone run Primo only as a first than polypharmacy, fully agree with the keeping it to one drug part whatever it may be. Again that's all based on my personal desire to be all controlling and shit, clean data to work with, one variable at a time etc
 
Can you get anything from 300 400mg of primo ?

If you have good genetics, train hard, diet is on point you would be surprised

My old training partner years ago would do 1 cycle a year for 10 weeks
300mgs of primo a week nothing else.

he was an animal and shredded year round. He was like a robot never ate cheat meals and trained like a freak 4x a week. Put him on 3 amps of primo a week and he would put on 6-8lbs and harden right up. Super full muscle bellies and looked unreal. His strength would take off too.

compared to the guys today it would be like most gym bro’s taking a gram of tren and test His results were that dramatic
 
@3ml

As I said above I don’t have a strong opinion either way, but one reason I advocate test only is because it’s what I did for my first five and it was simple and effective.

For me, the vet test suspension was my fav compound. All my training buddies went crazy with all kinds of different combos. I simply got better results from just the suspension. (But as we know gear is not the only factor in comparing results...diet, genetics, training)

That said when I leave TRT and do more of a HRT. I am starting to leaning towards keeping test at 100mg and adding primo, or mast. But main reason is to not use an ai, which I never feel good on.


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@Cumminstech2 i have a question for you ,so for me for instance when estrogen gets higher, i tickle a bit and get red under eyes, and water retension only on stomach, so is what your saying if i add other compounds ,my feelings of lets just say estrogen will be the same across the board? But cant prolactin issues be a similar feeling as estrogen? So hiw would you know without bloods, where as im pretty dam sure i know when estrogen is high because i started first 2 weeks test only.

yeah prolactin would play into it for sure, but that’s why I didn’t include 19nors ontop of test and used dbol as an example instead, because test and dbol is a very common first cycle.

I personally am not sold on prolactin causing gyno. I have run higher doses of nandrolone with no caber/prami and only used an AI and serm and had absolutely no problems. Thats all for another thread though.
 
I appreciate the thoughtful response.
I am not saying it’s the end of the world if this is what one plans to do.

Now I could say why not just run primo only for your first cycle? It’s very safe and well tolerated. One argument against that would be it can shut you down. Ok yes but very slowly. 20 some years ago we avoided test most of the time. It was considered a dirty drug because of the sides. Keep in mind AI wasn’t readily available.
With that point in mind though, some people need AI on 500mgs of test. So now you are actually using 2 drugs. If you ran 3-400mgs of primo for a first cycle that’s all you would need. You will likely be side effect free and by the time you are shit down you are probably coming off anyhow.
So why don’t we do primo only cycles to see how we do on primo first???!


In reality shutting your natural test down with a strictly anabolic cycle could be an entirely different topic we could discuss. Back in the day many guys ran purely anabolics and never had any issues in regards to shutting down

so your saying you don’t have to run test as a base with your cycles? Interesting.. I don’t disagree with you. I know plenty of people who do only orals and have good results. It was even talked about a few posts ago in this thread.

I personally would always run test as a base. Using dianabol as an example again, dianabol isn’t testosterone itself, but taking is suppresses your natural test. So wouldn’t you have low test problems on an oral only cycle? Hope that makes sense.
 
so your saying you don’t have to run test as a base with your cycles? Interesting.. I don’t disagree with you. I know plenty of people who do only orals and have good results. It was even talked about a few posts ago in this thread.

I personally would always run test as a base. Using dianabol as an example again, dianabol isn’t testosterone itself, but taking is suppresses your natural test. So wouldn’t you have low test problems on an oral only cycle? Hope that makes sense.

You don’t have to no. Plenty of people back in the day didn’t and were fine. Myself the only time I ever did it was because I was young lost my job and was broke as fuck. I ran 20mg of dbol a day for about 4 months. It was actually one of my time’s in life where I thought I looked the best.

Don’t get me wrong I love test. Test suspension is absolutely amazing. I run test with all my cycles. Now I’m older though I think I’m gonna move back to letting anabolics do the work. Might have one big 6 month blast left in me once this Scamdemic lightens up. But I’ve been talking with a col friends and my woman about downsizing and just doing primo, or some low dose experiments with other drugs. Be curious to do a something like
175 test wk
200 primo
200 dhb

Or
175 test wk
150 tren a week.

At the moment I have been off everything for about 5 weeks. I stopped cold turkey it’s been probably 3 years since I haven’t atleast taken weekly shots of test. No I’m not doing PCT either. Still feeling good so far. I imagine in a few weeks I may start feeling shitty.

im strongly considering doing no AAS not even trt until the gym opens. Been walking and biking no weights.

I was gonna ramble more but I’m way off topic
Back to debating the reason people say you should only use test on your first cycle
 
@Goldenrod @ABMonkey

I’m not calling you guys out, so I hope you don’t take it that way. You just usually recommend test only first cycles, and your both intelligent long time members who’s opinions I value - so I think you’d be good candidates for the “pro test only” side of the debate.
morning folks,
I'm older and have been lifting for over 30 years, been at the gym and worked security so I became friends with a lot of guys who were natural lifters, conservative, and then the ones that will stick whatever you give me to get bigger. @3ml - yes it is regurgitated, you are absolutely correct and probably will be forever but I'm not stating this because some competitors told me although some have. I recommend it because of personal experiences.
Some people can't handle gear period - just like some people can't handle alcohol. I have known nice guys who turned into pricks who beat up their friends, girlfriends when someone at the gym sold them on Test, deca and D-bol cycle. I had quite a few friends who ended in the ward of the hospital because they became suicidal while on multiple compound cycles. These are guys I played pool with, cards with and hung out with - seemed stable. I have a good memory and I found the guys who just took testosterone their first cycle got a taste for what it feels like to be stronger, bigger, more vascular than the average guy and does it turn them into a mean prick or completely change their personality. Did they all of the sudden become a bully or did they stay the same.
Back 20 years ago we bought from the big guys at the gym and they would sell you a major cycle even if you just wanted to start lifting weights and had no experience which was irresponsible in my opinion. I saw kids - I call them kids now go from 150 to 200 in 6 months and watched their personalities change.

Two guys I worked with on major cycles - they were naturally big men but decided to listen to the local pusher and take 3 compounds - try to hurt themselves. Would they if they just took a test only cycle - I don't know.
I am cautious by nature with putting something in my body and adding a substance we already have but just more of it is a way to find out how you will react to gear. Do you have bad sides? Most people are not responsible and get bloods done prior, during and after so they throw more shit at the wall and hope it sticks which could make things worse and cause depression, anxiety etc. Some people on TRT get problems with their nipples - so they immediately get AI thinking their estrogen is high without ordering and waiting a week or two for bloods. That one I can relate to as I thought I had high E - I didn't. Luckily, I had a wise person to say wait and order bloods and then we will deal with it.
Long story short - 90% will be fine taking multiple compounds and there are good reasons for both sides. Anyone who knows me on these forums, knows I'm not a confrontational person so I don't want to argue and I know and respect both @Cumminstech2 and @3ml albeit I don't PM with you 3ML but I read your posts and you know what your doing and speak your mind which I respect. A small % turn into people you don't want to be around anymore or they become suicidal. I'm not trying to sound dramatic - I've seen it and these guys are still friends. Some learned they can't take gear period as they can't handle it.

That is a short explanation but a lot comes down to my conservative nature too. I don't push it on anyone and each to their own but it is my opinion and we all have them.
take care guys.
GR
 
If you have good genetics, train hard, diet is on point you would be surprised

My old training partner years ago would do 1 cycle a year for 10 weeks
300mgs of primo a week nothing else.

he was an animal and shredded year round. He was like a robot never ate cheat meals and trained like a freak 4x a week. Put him on 3 amps of primo a week and he would put on 6-8lbs and harden right up. Super full muscle bellies and looked unreal. His strength would take off too.

compared to the guys today it would be like most gym bro’s taking a gram of tren and test His results were that dramatic
Yes diet, genetics and training/drive make a huge difference. The ghost in the machine, to coin a phrase from late 80s bodybuilding culture. Some guys are extreme responders to even small amounts of gear. It’s always amazing to see those guys.
 
Primo. My number 2 favorite drug, dbol being my favorite.

In my mind my best 2 cycles were dbol only (I never crashes at all, took it for 6 weeks, horney af fuck the whole time) and when I ran test at 200 mg and primo at 500 mg.

You know I hate test, fucking shit always promotes estrogen, even at higher trt does.

@3ml now I am thinking of just running primo alone. I am thinking 500 mg a week, no test. I'm truly curious now what will happen.
 
Primo. My number 2 favorite drug, dbol being my favorite.

In my mind my best 2 cycles were dbol only (I never crashes at all, took it for 6 weeks, horney af fuck the whole time) and when I ran test at 200 mg and primo at 500 mg.

You know I hate test, fucking shit always promotes estrogen, even at higher trt does.

@3ml now I am thinking of just running primo alone. I am thinking 500 mg a week, no test. I'm truly curious now what will happen.
I am too Sorbate - but if running test for a long time and just stop and run Primo, would your test not tank and create ED or desire issues? Just a question - not a statement. hope and the family are all safe and doing well bud
 
I know we are straying off topic a bit but the previous posts have prompted me to post again - In short ( :) ) -

Love Primo, there is just a certain healthy look it gives a lot of guys, not a quick mass gainer but the gains are "real", 200mg makes a difference for most IME. If money was no issue my HRT would be 100T and 200Primo.

Re: test as a base - I too have been around the AAS scene forever and know a bunch of guys who have never used it, I hardly ever mention it here but sometimes I run other stuff without it and most of the time in last few years only use it at around 100mg and let other compounds do the heavy lifting.
I don't bring it up often on the boards because in the past it has caused a few shitstorm/flame wars.
 
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