Tendonosis

millenium girl

Just her
Trusted Member
As you know I had a TKR in July and rehab has been a real pain. I knew physio was painful but something was definitely wrong. I had an ultrasound yesterday and it shows a tendonosis of the collateral ligaments and the patellar tendon. PT insists I keep going but pain is really bad. Kinetec is OK though. Doc didn't me give a treatment. Ibuprofen is a no no because of my sensitive stomach.
 
Ibuprofen isn’t recommended for tendinosis as it may interfere with collagen synthesis. Something you definitely dont want to do.

You want to do whatever you can to stimulate collagen synthesis. Your physio should be well versed in treatment of this condition. It’s a fine balance though because you also have to work on the knee replacement.

It’s going to hurt. Hurt terribly. But you need to follow the direction of your healthcare provider because they are not only skilled professionals, they objectively see all the information and have first hand ability to see what is going on.

If the physio sucks..... get a new physio.

Unfortunately this happens as we age and it’s exacerbated by excess physical activity. This is more serious and chronic than tendinitis and if it’s not handled well the tissues will continue to degenerate.
 
It's chronic then. I bet that the two physio sessions that I've had since the TKR caused this. I told both PT that I was in a lot of pain but they kept pushing me. I then switched to one female PT but she too pushed me and I thought that I had to push through the pain ... I said I'm gonna ask for an ultrasound because I'm sure something is wrong. She replied "I'm sure there is nothing". Well she was wrong and I was right .... Now what? She keeps pushing me and making me do passive traction and other exercises that hurt.
 
It's chronic then. I bet that the two physio sessions that I've had since the TKR caused this. I told both PT that I was in a lot of pain but they kept pushing me. I then switched to one female PT but she too pushed me and I thought that I had to push through the pain ... I said I'm gonna ask for an ultrasound because I'm sure something is wrong. She replied "I'm sure there is nothing". Well she was wrong and I was right .... Now what? She keeps pushing me and making me do passive traction and other exercises that hurt.

As bun said time for a new Physiotherapist
 
No vin. This is from chronic wear on the tendon. This type of damage comes from long long wear and tear. Tendinitis is acute.

This did not come from 2 physio sessions.

So moving forward the physio needs to be made aware of the new diagnosis so they can best tackle the problems. The reality is that despite the tendinosis, you still have to rehab the knee or there can be worse problems. It may be the case where the tendinosis has to take a back seat.... but that’s best decided by an informed physio. The rehab is going to hurt and hurt bad. As you know, I have terribly bad knees and have had multiple surgeries. I haven’t had a knee replacement yet as I’m not old enough. I have been at physio with other folks going through a knee replacement rehab. It does not look or sound like fun.

Lean on bagua. He can surely guide you.

It may sound strange but after rehabbing so many injuries you kind of start to learn what pain is just pain and what pain is pushing too far too fast. The key to remember is ensure the physio and your doctors know of the other issue so they can beat manage it. I assure you, because of who generally gets knee replacement you are not the first person they’ve treated that has tendinosis of the patella and surrounding ligaments.

Again even if you disagree with the new physio, maybe it’s time for a newer one. However if they’re all telling you the same thing maybe you need to listen to them.

Sorry girl. But you need some tough love.
 
As bun said time for a new Physiotherapist
I started physio right after surgery with one PhysioTerrorist. I lost my time and money (30 sessions of massage and frustration, no progress at all). I have then switched to a female PT who uses different techniques that work. Why should I look for another one?
 
I started physio right after surgery with one PhysioTerrorist. I lost my time and money (30 sessions of massage and frustration, no progress at all). I have then switched to a female PT who uses different techniques that work. Why should I look for another one?

I’m confused..... weren’t you unhappy how she was treating your rehab? If so, that would be the reason to get a new physio.
 
Trust needs to be established first to ensure compliance. It's well documented that volunteer based activity leads to much improved prognosis than involuntary (kicking and screaming dragging along). Pain control is of utmost importance. You can't just 'suck it up buttercup' to all movement. There are only a very small handful of conditions where pain must be experienced in order to push through, and even then it simply can not be a traumatic pain that leaves you unable to function for days on end. You'll only create a greater nociceptive pain loop and sensitization of the tissues.

Cortisone may be an option you have to go through if it's that bad. It may be beyond physio at this point because of the incredible pain you have, and must be medically managed before you can break through and get real progress. There's no point beating a dead horse and I do not agree at all to just torturing for torture itself if it merits no physical improvement. You can't go through 10 treatments of zero subjective and objective improvement and not keep thinking "some day". It won't. There MUST be progress of some sort, and you MUST be referred back for medical management so that physio CAN work. Otherwise, this is not in your best interests and certainly not best practice principles.
 
Trust needs to be established first to ensure compliance. It's well documented that volunteer based activity leads to much improved prognosis than involuntary (kicking and screaming dragging along). Pain control is of utmost importance. You can't just 'suck it up buttercup' to all movement. There are only a very small handful of conditions where pain must be experienced in order to push through, and even then it simply can not be a traumatic pain that leaves you unable to function for days on end. You'll only create a greater nociceptive pain loop and sensitization of the tissues.

Cortisone may be an option you have to go through if it's that bad. It may be beyond physio at this point because of the incredible pain you have, and must be medically managed before you can break through and get real progress. There's no point beating a dead horse and I do not agree at all to just torturing for torture itself if it merits no physical improvement. You can't go through 10 treatments of zero subjective and objective improvement and not keep thinking "some day". It won't. There MUST be progress of some sort, and you MUST be referred back for medical management so that physio CAN work. Otherwise, this is not in your best interests and certainly not best practice principles.

I don’t think anyone was saying just to suck it up and just push through and it will get better.

Knowing vin though for the better part of 15 years she needs to be pushed.

The message was. None (maybe with an exception of you and a few others) are really qualified to be able to objectively give her the answers she is looking for. Given that.... since she resides on the other side of the ocean, even those who may have the qualifications to provide advice wouldn’t know enough about where she’s at or what’s going on to be able to provide sound advice. Certainly not from a quick chat on a message board anyways.

The message sent was work with your healthcare providers and follow there advice. If there are issues. Seek out someone who may better understand what she is experiencing and provide her with what she needs. How frustrating would it be to find out that despite what I was trying to get her to do to get better (as a professional) I found out she was listening to a bunch of guys on a bodybuilding message board? It only complicated things is what I’m saying. We don’t even know if we are getting the whole story.... which is why advice here is dangerous.

If you know vin, she is looking for validation here. That and maybe some attention through venting of the setbacks. Not truly advice in progression. She knows much more than she will ever let on. She’s a smart cookie.

So while I agree with you in what you are saying as you raise a lot of good points. I do however disagree that anyone is just saying suck it up and push through.

I stand by things I said. Vin. Talk to your healthcare team for advice. Hopefully they are all communicating and value each other’s role. If something isn’t working out.... change it.
 
I don’t think anyone was saying just to suck it up and just push through and it will get better.

Knowing vin though for the better part of 15 years she needs to be pushed.

The message was. None (maybe with an exception of you and a few others) are really qualified to be able to objectively give her the answers she is looking for. Given that.... since she resides on the other side of the ocean, even those who may have the qualifications to provide advice wouldn’t know enough about where she’s at or what’s going on to be able to provide sound advice. Certainly not from a quick chat on a message board anyways.

The message sent was work with your healthcare providers and follow there advice. If there are issues. Seek out someone who may better understand what she is experiencing and provide her with what she needs. How frustrating would it be to find out that despite what I was trying to get her to do to get better (as a professional) I found out she was listening to a bunch of guys on a bodybuilding message board? It only complicated things is what I’m saying. We don’t even know if we are getting the whole story.... which is why advice here is dangerous.

If you know vin, she is looking for validation here. That and maybe some attention through venting of the setbacks. Not truly advice in progression. She knows much more than she will ever let on. She’s a smart cookie.

So while I agree with you in what you are saying as you raise a lot of good points. I do however disagree that anyone is just saying suck it up and push through.

I stand by things I said. Vin. Talk to your healthcare team for advice. Hopefully they are all communicating and value each other’s role. If something isn’t working out.... change it.

Hey bro definitely wasn't coming down on you at all for anything. You weren't even in my thought processes when writing it, you're providing solid advice and it's easy to piggy back off your statements which is a blessing in some respeccts. This is also why I say at the top of this board that this is not a replacement from seeing your health care provider (HCP). It's just guided advice based on the information we currently have displayed here.
 
Haha bigugly, your replies always made my day. We go back a long time and whenever I read you using my former handle Vin I'm happy.

I trust the actual PT and I make progress but slower than I want to (I'm not a very patient person). I also do like 3 hours Kinetec a day sometimes more. I exercise around the pain which I think isn't caused by the tendonosis but by the inflammation around the patella and both collateral ligaments.

The more I move around the better. As soon as I remain seated or stand for too long, knee is super stiff again.

OS isn't worried about the knee, GP is the same, he sees progress and PT always finds new exercises that help relieving the pain instead of increasing it.

A MD and friend at another board saw the ultrasound and confirms that I shouldn't worry too much since tendonosis is quite common in people my age. He also gave me advice on what to do or not after physio and stretching.

I really appreciate your input, folks. Thank you for everything.

Yours truly,
Vin aka the smart cookie :p
 
I’m confused..... weren’t you unhappy how she was treating your rehab? If so, that would be the reason to get a new physio.
No I was unhappy with the way the male PT was treating my knee. She uses different techniques while the guy was massaging the knee for 10 min, forcing it to bend just like that for 5 minutes, massaging the knee again for 5 min and he was gone ... Not what I needed the first 3 weeks post surgery.
 
No I was unhappy with the way the male PT was treating my knee. She uses different techniques while the guy was massaging the knee for 10 min, forcing it to bend just like that for 5 minutes, massaging the knee again for 5 min and he was gone ... Not what I needed the first 3 weeks post surgery.

Sorry if I was confused vin.

Sounds like you’re on track then? Good news sista!
 
Sorry if I was confused vin.

Sounds like you’re on track then? Good news sista!

Don't be sorry. I switched PT's a while ago. Right now I wish I could stop doing physio to be honest. NHS will only allow people to have 60 sessions physiotherapy after TKR and I think I have had them. I will check with them.

I use the Kinetec three to four times a day, it really helps. This morning I went to a colleague's funerals and in the church chairs really low. I remained seated for some time during the mass (massaging the knee bent at 90 degrees). When I got up I could walk without a limp ... which isn't the case when I sit on a regular chair. This is weird.

Not sure I'm on track. Progress is slow, too slow for me anyway. I know I will get there, question is when ... Some say it might take up from six months to a year for your knee to be functional. I will never have the other one done, that's for sure.
 
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