Overwhelmed and need advice on Tbol cycle

Newms420

Newms420

New member
Hello friends sorry if I sound dumb or ignorant I’m trying my best.

Me and my buddy want to run a Tbol cycle with a possible shift to Anavar the last 3 maybe 4 weeks if we feel up to it.

So basically we are going to do 350 mg Test E twice a week as just support. No need to go nuts on that.

So with this we want to dose 20-40mg Tbol (maybe increase to 40mg) week 1 - 8 (stop at 6 if shits hectic) and we were also thinking of taking 25mg Proviron daily for mild estrogen support and so the Test goes further. We were also thinking MK-677 12.5mg daily or EOD.

So we have a bunch of Var and I’m entertaining the idea of switching to 20-50mg of that for weeks 9-12 if we go that long. Is this dumb? Also is it justifiable to reduce test to 250mg twice a week the last bit of the cycle to help ease into PCT?

We both were also thinking about starting a microdose HCG (was told 250-500IU twice a week) starting week 5-6 onward to keep our balls working. For PCT I’m a lil bamboozled about if Clomid/Enclo (which is ideal? What dose?) should be paired with Nolva or HCG (reg dose)

I’m an experienced natural lifter and I’ve been at it for 11 years 6’0 176 lean (cuz stress usually I’m a nice 188-192) my friend is lean and experienced as well. I’m down and grateful for any advice and in fact (mods lmk if this is no go) if you decide to write out a lot of advice just add your PayPal if you want and I’ll happily tip for your time and effort. Thanks so much everybody sorry if this is annoying I just need solid answers

EDIT: I am 26 eat clean and fuck mean. Also I am aware the safest route for my “first” cycle is just test but after reading about Tbol/Var the additional benefits seemed reasonable even with the additional risks which seemed to be less than other compounds, I’d also be taking slightly less test as well if I took an oral. I did my reading. I’m not completely ignorant, but I seem to be missing something here.
 
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Morning,

If you did an intro - I missed it. Is this your first cycle? How long do you plan to run the orals on top of the testosterone? How long has your friend been training?
Do not worry about sounding ignorant (as in lack of knowledge) as we all learn from each other and from reading/trial and error. People will help you. If will be easier to answer your questions as you are throwing a lot of different compounds in a potential cycle and it is hard to know - test, T-bol, Oxandrolone, MK677, HCG, PCT compounds.
Good to hear you have 11 years behind you lifting. No one expects to be paid via Paypal for forum advice. If you want to hire a coach for a very reasonable cost and who can guide on a safer journey of growth, PM @Funnyman as he is a resident coach. Doesn't mean you have to compete, anyone at any level can learn from him - at least that is my opinion.
Please answer my questions and I will be happy to give you my opinion.
Please do not forget harm reduction as both of those orals are a no go for me - my liver enzymes go through the roof and my lipids are a mess in very short order. It isn't like that for everyone - some people can take either/or and no impact on their liver. Keep in mind your kidneys do most of the work with Oxandrolone but it still messes up a lot people with their liver enzymes that indicate liver stress.

Look forward to your responses.
GR
 
Goldenrod said:
Morning,

If you did an intro - I missed it. Is this your first cycle? How long do you plan to run the orals on top of the testosterone? How long has your friend been training?
Do not worry about sounding ignorant (as in lack of knowledge) as we all learn from each other and from reading/trial and error. People will help you. If will be easier to answer your questions as you are throwing a lot of different compounds in a potential cycle and it is hard to know - test, T-bol, Oxandrolone, MK677, HCG, PCT compounds.
Good to hear you have 11 years behind you lifting. No one expects to be paid via Paypal for forum advice. If you want to hire a coach for a very reasonable cost and who can guide on a safer journey of growth, PM @Funnyman as he is a resident coach. Doesn't mean you have to compete, anyone at any level can learn from him - at least that is my opinion.
Please answer my questions and I will be happy to give you my opinion.
Please do not forget harm reduction as both of those orals are a no go for me - my liver enzymes go through the roof and my lipids are a mess in very short order. It isn't like that for everyone - some people can take either/or and no impact on their liver. Keep in mind your kidneys do most of the work with Oxandrolone but it still messes up a lot people with their liver enzymes that indicate liver stress.

Look forward to your responses.
GR
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So a few years ago I ran a half assed test C cycle that I pussied out of 5 weeks in. I’ve also had good experiences with MK-677 in the past. But otherwise yaaaa this my first one and I found everything so fascinating I got carried away but it essentially boils down to Test E, Tbol, and Proviron low dose and maybe MK low dose for the actual cycle. I am getting bloodwork done in the next 3 days and again 2-3 times over the cycle. Rn I have an old man who used to compete and is essentially acting as my coach he is incredibly helpful but I thought I’d get some more opinions. So for orals I’m realizing 10 weeks is probably the absolute max but 8 weeks is realistic (my mentor says fuckit 12 weeks). My buddy has been training weights for 6 years (taught by yours truly in exchange for his boxing wisdom) rn he’s slim at 5’9-5’10 and 155 pounds. As for harm reduction im trying to run a thorough stack of supplements including NAC and TUDCA as well as Tumeric/curcumim and many others.

Thanks for the reply I hope that answers your questions. And I’ll provide any other info you need. I’m like a sponge so I’ll take anything you say very seriously. Good advice on paying attention to my kidneys.
 
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Newms420 said:
Hello friends sorry if I sound dumb or ignorant I’m trying my best.
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Ignorant does have to be an insulting word bud so maybe you are in fact ignorant but that only means you lack awareness or knowledge. And you're not dumb because you are smart enough to ask some questions so you can stop being ignorant. ;) You're very welcome to do that here as long as you play nice.

Now if you haven't started yet I'd strongly suggest some more learning before you get going. Get a handle on all of those questions you are asking and all of the ones that you haven't even thought of yet first. Many is the man who freaks out when they fuck something up and are in a panic to figure out what to do, scrambling for answers and weighing out sources and opinions is no fun when you are grow titties or shitting out a kidney.

One more comment then I hope you'll get into it, you are likely to find that the strong consensus out there is that your intention for the Tbol and Var is a longer run than most think is a good idea, especially as you don't even know how they affect you yet, bloodwork and in general.

Good Luck
 
Orals for most over a certain age are just a waste of health for what their worth. How old are you? I know I'm over 40 and I would way rather test either primo or something over any orals. Just too much risk on organs, blood pressure and cholesterol
 
If you dad has done this before and his health is still good, I would follow his advice on what to take. I doubt he would want to hurt his son.

And yeah 12 weeks is a better length. Low and steady wins the day.

Myself I would runt the tbol for the first 3 weeks and then 300 mg of test the whole run.

IMO HCG is a great idea to run thru the whole cycle 500 mcg a week. Why let your balls shrivel if you are coming off to pct.
Yeah some guys bounce back fine, but I wouldn't chance it and if you have it already it is basically harmless so why not?
 
gondar1 said:
Ignorant does have to be an insulting word bud so maybe you are in fact ignorant but that only means you lack awareness or knowledge. And you're not dumb because you are smart enough to ask some questions so you can stop being ignorant. ;) You're very welcome to do that here as long as you play nice.

Now if you haven't started yet I'd strongly suggest some more learning before you get going. Get a handle on all of those questions you are asking and all of the ones that you haven't even thought of yet first. Many is the man who freaks out when they fuck something up and are in a panic to figure out what to do, scrambling for answers and weighing out sources and opinions is no fun when you are grow titties or shitting out a kidney.

One more comment then I hope you'll get into it, you are likely to find that the strong consensus out there is that your intention for the Tbol and Var is a longer run than most think is a good idea, especially as you don't even know how they affect you yet, bloodwork and in general.

Good Luck
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Ya man very true I’m just doing my best. So I should’ve mentioned the obvious in my first post: I am aware the best way to go is just Test no Orals. That makes sense to me. So why does anyone do orals? Is the risk that gruesome? I’ve put in 25 hours of reading so far and I’ve got an idea of how Var and Tbol both work respectively as well as their risks. They (separately of course) seemed attractive due to the nitrogen retention as well as lack of aromatization compared to other compounds. I also liked the lack of water retention and increased red blood cell count. The liver toxicity of both again is mild compared to others. I thought it would be more beneficial and anabolic than simply running 500 mg test twice a week with more benefits to energy and endurance without presenting an unreasonable additional risk to the liver than test alone. Where is it that I’m off base?
 
Musclemaker said:
Test
Tbol
Anavar
Proviron

First real cycle - stick with Test.
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Yes I should’ve mentioned this in my original thread I’m aware that is the best option for my first real cycle. I guess my reading made me wonder if the additional benefits for nitrogen retention and endurance that comes with Tbol or Var would be worth the risk of liver strain (although not as bad as other compounds). Would your take be 500mg test twice per week and just leave it at that? Even if I stuck to one compound say at a dose of only 20-30mg? I know my way is wrong friend don’t worry about convincing me, I’m just hear to learn
 
Bigbear said:
Orals for most over a certain age are just a waste of health for what their worth. How old are you? I know I'm over 40 and I would way rather test either primo or something over any orals. Just too much risk on organs, blood pressure and cholesterol
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Mid 20s
 
Sorbate said:
If you dad has done this before and his health is still good, I would follow his advice on what to take. I doubt he would want to hurt his son.

And yeah 12 weeks is a better length. Low and steady wins the day.

Myself I would runt the tbol for the first 3 weeks and then 300 mg of test the whole run.

IMO HCG is a great idea to run thru the whole cycle 500 mcg a week. Why let your balls shrivel if you are coming off to pct.
Yeah some guys bounce back fine, but I wouldn't chance it and if you have it already it is basically harmless so why not?
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Lmao don’t get me started on my dad he’s an anomaly. We are a healthy family is what I’ll say. And this is an interesting suggestion, thank you for your reply!

So you think 12 weeks 300-350mg twice a week and Tbol 3 weeks only (dose of 40mg I’m guessing?) with HCG in the background at 500 mcg a week.

I really like this advice. Is Tbol that gnarly? In my research Var and Tbol seemed reasonable risk wise. What about Proviron so the test goes farther and there’s some mild estrogen control? Any experience with that?
 
Newms420 said:
Lmao don’t get me started on my dad he’s an anomaly. We are a healthy family is what I’ll say. And this is an interesting suggestion, thank you for your reply!

So you think 12 weeks 300-350mg twice a week and Tbol 3 weeks only (dose of 40mg I’m guessing?) with HCG in the background at 500 mcg a week.

I really like this advice. Is Tbol that gnarly? In my research Var and Tbol seemed reasonable risk wise. What about Proviron so the test goes farther and there’s some mild estrogen control? Any experience with that?
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300 mg of test a week total. You are not near big enough to need 700 mg of test. The rest will be fine.

If you dad is willing to help out, I'd likely trust him because he has been there and done that. Shit if I had a dad who was a competitor at one time and ran gear for sure I would listen to him. As I said he wouldn't want to hurt his child and give you great advice.

BTW getting a second opinion on here isn't a bad idea, but from us you will get 20 different answers because everyones body is different. The advantage you have with your dad is your genetics are similar to his so what he did and was effective will likely work for you.

Tbol was boring to me. Didn't get much out of it, but you may respond better.
Proviron is a waste of money IMO.

Relax and just run a couple compounds with your hcg, your body will only grow so much, and taking more will not give you more gains.
 
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I like to reply in bold sometimes "click to expand"

Newms420 said:
Ya man very true I’m just doing my best. So I should’ve mentioned the obvious in my first post: I am aware the best way to go is just Test no Orals. That makes sense to me. So why does anyone do orals? Is the risk that gruesome? probably a few reasons -scared to pin, mentally more acceptable and normal than injecting cause everybody is used to taking pills of some sort, easy to hide or explain "why do you have a syringe in your lunch box johnny?""hey honey i found the kids playing with some needles WTF?" Plus some have characteristics that aren't common among injectables, myself I'm convinced my tendons love var, nothing else I'm able to take comes close. Gruesomeness? I feel like that is a matter of degrees dependent largely on dose but there is no denying that as a rule they are harder on the system due to how they are metabolized, "first pass" etc I’ve put in 25 hours of reading so far and I’ve got an idea of how Var and Tbol both work respectively as well as their risks. They (separately of course) seemed attractive due to the nitrogen retention as well as lack of aromatization compared to other compounds. Note Var doesn't aromatize but none of the DHT's do I also liked the lack of water retention and increased red blood cell count. The liver toxicity of both again is mild compared to others. I thought it would be more beneficial and anabolic than simply running 500 mg test twice a week Maybe, I don't recall ever seeing much good science that would back that up other than theoretical, anecdotally I don't think you'd find much support for it outperforming T for actual hypertrophy although almost ironically it may be one of the small group of AAS that give strength gains with much mass gain, maybe because of the previously mentioned effect on tendons, collagen turnover(?). However that last part is very debatable in mature adults despite my own anecdotal experience with more benefits to energy and endurance without presenting an unreasonable additional risk to the liver than test alone. Why do you think injectable T is hard on the liver? Not directly afaik, maybe indirectly through effect on increased RBC's and cholesterol levels but not to bad unless you really hammer it. I'd submit most orals are much harder even TBol and even though it is supposed to be metabolized by the kidneys Var as well. Where is it that I’m off base?
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Off base is the perfect term, I don't think anything you've said in this post is absolutely wrong, again more like a matter of degrees. I'm presenting just one opinion, I like to think it's very much based on facts but opinions will vary. Balancing out the pluses and minuses is the trick, and it can be a hard trick to master. Every variable amplifies the difficulty, K.I.S.S. applies which is at least part of the reason for the Test Only mantra you will hear. That's a nice lil debatable subject too though.

Running out of time so I didn't proof read, don't be shy about politely challenging anything I ever say. Or anyone else for that matter. That reminds me, you are doing great here as a new guy but there is a recent thread here that is called Noob mistakes or something like that that is worth a look for anyone new to the site.

Have good day
 
Why did I do an oral only cycle the first time? Because I didn't know how I'd react to steroids, and just wanted to get my feet wet before I got serious and started to inject.

Plus I was 43 and at 43 your mind is different than in your 20's.

In your 20's its like hell yeah lets inject some stuff from some unknown place because my buddy got huge, he didn't die, I'll be fine.

At 43 it's more like, am I sure I want to inject something from some unknown place into my body and risk getting fucked up, and will it effect my health.

When I saw what I could accomplish in my 40's on just 25 mg of dbol a week,, I was sold then got over my hesitation and injected.
 
Bro

Everyone beating around the bush

You have information paralysis

And worse thing you can do is come here asking for opinions when it clear your gonna do tbol only

The moment you become a sponge and try to soak in knowledge is the moment you’ll listen and learn

If you come in with a sponge soaked with 25 hours of whatever reading you’ve done
Not much more to retain

This happens in day trading field all the time I’ve seen it day in day out

The more you read the less you do the more you have no idea wtf is going on
Thinking the knowledge will save you the actual trial and error all of us go through

Good luck
 
Sorbate said:
300 mg of test a week total. You are not near big enough to need 700 mg of test. The rest will be fine.

If you dad is willing to help out, I'd likely trust him because he has been there and done that. Shit if I had a dad who was a competitor at one time and ran gear for sure I would listen to him. As I said he wouldn't want to hurt his child and give you great advice.

BTW getting a second opinion on here isn't a bad idea, but from us you will get 20 different answers because everyones body is different. The advantage you have with your dad is your genetics are similar to his so what he did and was effective will likely work for you.

Tbol was boring to me. Didn't get much out of it, but you may respond better.
Proviron is a waste of money IMO.

Relax and just run a couple compounds with your hcg, your body will only grow so much, and taking more will not give you more gains.
Click to expand...
Lmao padre was a college defensive back and natty all the way, I believe he maxed out at in the low-mid 180s with low bf % he’s also about 5’9 and I’m 6’0. Still looks incredible in his 50s. So this is my lil secret.

So you’re suggesting pinning 150 mg twice a week for 300mg total (it’s test E)? Cuz I really like that idea a ton. I kinda just want the Test to help out but I don’t want too much of it flooding my shit.

I’ll see how I respond to Tbol but I honestly think I was responding better to Var the week and a half I tried it many moons ago.

Good advice man thanks for taking the time. And dw I’m used to the gridlock of ideas forums can be I’m just trying to avoid disaster. But tbh I’ll proceed how I proceed
 
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