Jello for joints thread

[Sorbate]

Good stuff from Layne. Made me feel like I must be as smart as him because I came to the same muddled inconclusive conclusions . Raised the "does consuming it really mean it will work vs just having the amino's needed to synthesize it in another thread where Cheapshot and I were discussing it. I'm only kidding about being as smart as him as he may be the worlds leading authority on all things protein related but it is nice to see that even he had a hard time getting to the bottom of all this.

Myself I decided to just try it and see what I could feel. I couldn't feel any difference (so far) but this isn't the kind of thing that is necessarily going to be blatantly obvious.

I sure wish I had seen that before spending the mostly useless time on my own trying to get to the bottom of this. Thanks Rocky

My thought is, it’s like a multivitamin, if your body doesn’t need it, well you excrete it.
Now on normal people it likely does nothing, but we are not normal and strain our bodies, requiring more certian nutrients. Now how many of us eat meat full of connective tissue, or drink soups made from actual bone, tendon broths?
My thought is chicken breasts, extra lean ground whatever, may keep us lean and maximize our protein intake, but I believe it harms us in the long term because we never replace the joint structures with building blocks.

See I’ve always loved pho soup, my wife loves to make real soup of other types. I eat meat high in connective tissue because I ate fattier meats. Could be why I have no joint issues after all these years of abuse. Muscle knots, yes, joints are perfect, lol.

Now I’m not sure if after the fact it will work. Maybe a combination of pentosan with injectable glucosamine and hyrolonic acid plus collagen derived from more natural sources may. Just like gaining muscle, adding in one thing but not the rest usually won’t realize any benefit.

 

[Rocky]

If it was t such a pain in the ass to resize picture to post, I’d post the pic of the stuff that worked for my wife, lol. Anyone know an easy way to reduce picture size on an iPad?

If you go to pictures, there’s an edit button in the top right corner, where you can crop pictures, on the iPhone at least

My thought is, it’s like a multivitamin, if your body doesn’t need it, well you excrete it.
Now on normal people it likely does nothing, but we are not normal and strain our bodies, requiring more certian nutrients. Now how many of us eat meat full of connective tissue, or drink soups made from actual bone, tendon broths?
My thought is chicken breasts, extra lean ground whatever, may keep us lean and maximize our protein intake, but I believe it harms us in the long term because we never replace the joint structures with building blocks.

See I’ve always loved pho soup, my wife loves to make real soup of other types. I eat meat high in connective tissue because I ate fattier meats. Could be why I have no joint issues after all these years of abuse. Muscle knots, yes, joints are perfect, lol.

Now I’m not sure if after the fact it will work. Maybe a combination of pentosan with injectable glucosamine and hyrolonic acid plus collagen derived from more natural sources may. Just like gaining muscle, adding in one thing but not the rest usually won’t realize any benefit.

I haven't done much research on it but i found out recently how important fats are in the diet, i always had a low fat diet approach
turns out you need fats/cholesterol for a bunch of functions in your body. After i added back in healthy fats, my skin and nails changed dramatically.

Going to do some research on collagen tonight, maybe it's another nutrient the body can use

 

[Sorbate]

I took a far picture and cropped it, but you’ll get the jist of it.

 

[gondar1]

My thought is, it’s like a multivitamin, if your body doesn’t need it, well you excrete it.
Now on normal people it likely does nothing, but we are not normal and strain our bodies, requiring more certian nutrients. Now how many of us eat meat full of connective tissue, or drink soups made from actual bone, tendon broths?
My thought is chicken breasts, extra lean ground whatever, may keep us lean and maximize our protein intake, but I believe it harms us in the long term because we never replace the joint structures with building blocks.

See I’ve always loved pho soup, my wife loves to make real soup of other types. I eat meat high in connective tissue because I ate fattier meats. Could be why I have no joint issues after all these years of abuse. Muscle knots, yes, joints are perfect, lol.

Now I’m not sure if after the fact it will work. Maybe a combination of pentosan with injectable glucosamine and hyrolonic acid plus collagen derived from more natural sources may. Just like gaining muscle, adding in one thing but not the rest usually won’t realize any benefit.

If you go to pictures, there’s an edit button in the top right corner, where you can crop pictures, on the iPhone at least




I haven't done much research on it but i found out recently how important fats are in the diet, i always had a low fat diet approach
turns out you need fats/cholesterol for a bunch of functions in your body. After i added back in healthy fats, my skin and nails changed dramatically.

Going to do some research on collagen tonight, maybe it's another nutrient the body can use

Hey Rocky if you don't mind could you keep an eye open for a couple of things?

a) what is the actual difference between the 3 main different types of collagen? ie structure or chemical etc
b) to encourage or enable collagen turnover in our soft tissue is eating collagen necessary or better than just having the proper aminos ingested?

If you happen to come across anything like that could you throw up a link please?

 

[Rocky]

Hey Rocky if you don't mind could you keep an eye open for a couple of things?

a) what is the actual difference between the 3 main different types of collagen? ie structure or chemical etc
b) to encourage or enable collagen turnover in our soft tissue is eating collagen necessary or better than just having the proper aminos ingested?

If you happen to come across anything like that could you throw up a link please?

I haven’t looked into this to make sure it’s correct, and dr berg on YouTube is highly controversial cause of his claims for the keto diet/intermittent fasting being so good
But I found out about David Sinclair (some anti aging scientist) and he seems to agree about a lot of the things dr berg says
Anyways, he breaks down the types of collagen types, I’d probably double check what he says though, but so far a lot of the stuff he’s said has been accurate.
I think he believes in actually consuming the collagen as well and not just the amino acids. But he also believes in eating a moderate protein diet to get all the essential amino acids, as it’s required

 

[gondar1]

I haven’t looked into this to make sure it’s correct, and dr berg on YouTube is highly controversial cause of his claims for the keto diet/intermittent fasting being so good
But I found out about David Sinclair (some anti aging scientist) and he seems to agree about a lot of the things dr berg says
Anyways, he breaks down the types of collagen types, I’d probably double check what he says though, but so far a lot of the stuff he’s said has been accurate.
I think he believes in actually consuming the collagen as well and not just the amino acids. But he also believes in eating a moderate protein diet to get all the essential amino acids, as it’s required

Thank you sir, pretty good vid compared to what I've seen

 

[Rocky]

Thank you sir, pretty good vid compared to what I've seen

I think from what i've read that you do have to take collagen and not just the amino acids found in it, to get the benefits seen from supplementing with collagen. Most of the studies though were done on skin elasticity and collagens supplementation on its effect on skin though. Collagen peptides (hydrolyzed) is what they used, between 2.5-10g's a day. Also those with higher BMI didn't get the same affects as those with lower BMI, so you might have to use more if you weight more.
Also a study noticed hydrolyzed collagen peptides from pork worked better than from fish skin, so the source where the hydrolyzed collagen peptides makes a difference

I think for improvement in skin it's a good chance hydrolyzed collagen peptides would work, but for joint's it's still not well studied.
It probably would increase collagen in the joints as well, but how much and if it would be a big enough increase to be beneficial is unknown

I think from what i've read, an increase in growth hormone is the best way to heal joints because it repairs tendons, ligaments, collagen and cartilage. Although taking GH is a lot riskier, and is more expensive. Im debating using GH again, i might supplement with collagen peptides as well with it, if i do

 

[Princess_Penguin]

I think from what i've read that you do have to take collagen and not just the amino acids found in it, to get the benefits seen from supplementing with collagen. Most of the studies though were done on skin elasticity and collagens supplementation on its effect on skin though. Collagen peptides (hydrolyzed) is what they used, between 2.5-10g's a day. Also those with higher BMI didn't get the same affects as those with lower BMI, so you might have to use more if you weight more.
Also a study noticed hydrolyzed collagen peptides from pork worked better than from fish skin, so the source where the hydrolyzed collagen peptides makes a difference

I think for improvement in skin it's a good chance hydrolyzed collagen peptides would work, but for joint's it's still not well studied.
It probably would increase collagen in the joints as well, but how much and if it would be a big enough increase to be beneficial is unknown

I think from what i've read, an increase in growth hormone is the best way to heal joints because it repairs tendons, ligaments, collagen and cartilage. Although taking GH is a lot riskier, and is more expensive. Im debating using GH again, i might supplement with collagen peptides as well with it, if i do

What is going on with your joints that u r trying to fix via collagen and GH ?

 

[Rocky]

What is going on with your joints that u r trying to fix via collagen and GH ?

im not sure to be honest, just the toes have been a bit weird ever since last winter, they crack everytime i move them (literally every time) and ache from time to time. probably because i was an idiot and only wore shorts and slippers last year

saw some rheumatologists and the X-rays/ultrasounds showed they were okay, might see one again to see if things have changed.

also the skin benefits are a huge plus, im young now and want to stay looking that way and the fat burning effects are also another plus

 

[Rocky]

Just to update, i ended up getting a consumerlab.com subscription to read their report on collagen
to sum up what they said

Collagen supplements for the skin typically contain type I and or type III collagen (but not always), which is the principal type of collagen found in tendons/bone/skin, which decreases with age. Supplements for joint health typically contain type II collagen, which is found most abundantly in cartilage.
Benefits from taking collagen may take up to 8 weeks for skin and 3 to 6 months for joint pain

Verisol is the collagen brand (trademark) that was mostly used in studies for improving skin (pig derived), so they recommend using collagen supplements with that, for improving skin health

They said UC-II is what they recommend for joint health because it was the most studied collagen product, 40grams of UC-II contains 10g of collagen. UC-II is raw "undenatured" form of collagen, from chicken breast cartilage.
NT2 collagen is another branded collagen ingredient made from undenatured type II collagen from chicken sternum cartilage and it also provides 10mg of collagen per 40mg serving

One brand they tested contained heavy metals over the allowed amount, it was bulletproof chocolate collagen protein, and it contained 8.9mcg of cadmium (4.1mcg is the limit in california). They mentioned it's probably from the cocoa in the product that was contaminated with the heavy metal

They recommended healthy origins natural UC-II for joint health
and trunature (costco) healthy skin verisol collagen capsules or besha inc. collagen peptides powder (verisol)

Also they said vitamin c plays a role in collagen production, but it's unlikely it provides an additional benefit unless you're deficient in vitamin c

and that plant based collagen supplements supply the ingredients that your body can use in making collagen, but plants do not provide collagen