First Cycle - Total Noob

cities

cities

New member
STATS:
Age: 31
Sex: Male
Starting Weight: 150lbs
Body Fat: 15 - 18%
Height: 5’7
Build: Small


DIET:
2000 calories daily.

Just a clean healthy and balanced diet. I very rarely eat out and don't eat fast food anymore (besides maybe a pizza with the boys on fight nights).
My diet will consist of whole foods, home-cooked hearty meals. Stews, steak and salad, various other meat dishes, etc. Not a whole lot of carbs at all, I try to stay away from carb-heavy foods as they are a waste of calories for how much they fill me up.

WORK OUT SCHEDULE:
I grapple daily for 1 hour, which is a high-intensity full-body workout. I will be doing the Strong Lifts Program 5x5 EOD for the length of the cycle.


SUPPLEMENTS:
Pre-workout
Protein powder - 50mg total protein from this source/ daily. The rest will come from my diet.
Daily Multivitamins
Vitamin D


CYCLE:
400mg test-e /wk - 12 weeks, split into 2 doses per week. Tuesday, and Saturday 200mg each.
20mg anavar daily - ED for 10 weeks


PCT:
3 weeks after last pin.

Clomid - 50/50/25/25/12.5
Nolvadex - 40/20/20/20/10
Aromasin - 12.5mgs EOD
Osterine – 20/20/20/20/10
HCG – I have this on hand, but I don’t think it should be necessary for a cycle like I'm running? Please let me know what you think.

AI:
Aromasin on hand.


So just a bit of background information. I’m not trying to get huge, I'm trying to get shockingly strong for my size. I’m a submission grappler and I have to conform to a strict weight class, I can’t go over 165. I want to win the provincial championship next year. My first cycle is more of a body re-comp than a bulking cycle. I want to shed 15lbs of fat and replace that with muscle if possible. I chose anavar for its ability to mobilize SQ fat (source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8574271). The test-e I chose as it's the overwhelming favorite for first-time cycles. The osterine is in my PCT as it's been proven to conserve muscle without shutting down test production. I'm not 100% on adding osterine yet, I have to do a bit more research. Please let me know what you think about the cycle. Your experience is incredibly valuable.

Cities
 
I'd ditch the clomid, aromasin (out of your PCT) and ostarine. I'd also lower the dose of nolvadex to 20mg and run it for an additional two weeks. That's what I did, PCT was great.

Also consider running HCG either low dose throughout cycle or slightly larger shots as you approach PCT.

PS. I think you should decide whether you're going to cut or bulk. Recomping is notoriously hard to do and quite often you'll just end up spinning wheels and wasting a cycle.
 
Nice job of laying it out for us, you obviously have done some homework.

An oft repeated mantra you'll hear in this game is something along the lines of "diet is the most important thing".

I think that with your goals in mind that is especially true. If you have not already IMO you should nail down your diet to a fine degree.
I'd record every gram of Protein, Carb and Fat that you take in. There are some great apps out there for tracking these macros. I use My Fitness Pal but it seems a bit buggy right now and I am considering others. If you use one don't trust the values provided (crowd sourced) look each one up and create your own.

Combine the data that you gather from that with regular weight checks (and some type of BF measurement if possible) to make adjustments as needed.

As ABM mentioned recomping ain't easy, in my experience your best shot at it is via some form of carb cycling with carbs taken around activity and totals carbs adjusted daily with the days activity being considered. Toggling between anabolic days and fat loss days.
 
If you are grappling everyday and doing 5x5 training my bet is you will get a significant injury by before the cycle is done. That is a ton of work-load on the connective tissue.

I have been doing this a looooong time. my recommendation would be to grapple no more than 5 days per week on cycle (alternating situational drilling and sparring). And you can get away with weights 3 times per week. i would do upper lower training or at least a version of antagonist training. No more than 16 working sets per workout (its too much work on elbows and knees). As for reps i would suggest that the most beneficial strength for grappling comes from higher reps. my working sets are 12-15, 10-12 then 8-10.

M2C
 
ABMonkey said:
I'd ditch the clomid, aromasin (out of your PCT) and ostarine. I'd also lower the dose of nolvadex to 20mg and run it for an additional two weeks. That's what I did, PCT was great.

Also consider running HCG either low dose throughout cycle or slightly larger shots as you approach PCT.

PS. I think you should decide whether you're going to cut or bulk. Recomping is notoriously hard to do and quite often you'll just end up spinning wheels and wasting a cycle.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply. We're you able to keep the majority of your gains just using Nolva and HCG?
 
Oldguyjiujitsu said:
If you are grappling everyday and doing 5x5 training my bet is you will get a significant injury by before the cycle is done. That is a ton of work-load on the connective tissue.

I have been doing this a looooong time. my recommendation would be to grapple no more than 5 days per week on cycle (alternating situational drilling and sparring). And you can get away with weights 3 times per week. i would do upper lower training or at least a version of antagonist training. No more than 16 working sets per workout (its too much work on elbows and knees). As for reps i would suggest that the most beneficial strength for grappling comes from higher reps. my working sets are 12-15, 10-12 then 8-10.

M2C
Click to expand...
Thanks for your reply. I value this kind of insight a lot as you are a grappler as well. I will drop training down to 4 times a week and then strong lifts 3 times. If I can handle more I will increase it. Thank you.
 
If strength is your main factor I think the dosages are pretty good. Normally for a first run I like to see test only but since you chose a more mild oral I think you will be safe. As others have mentioned that’s a pretty heavy PCT.

will you be doing a bloods at all to see where your estrogen and such ends up? At 400 mg you may or may not need aromasin.
 
Great job in laying everhthing out
I have never ran PCT nor will I so I wont comment on that

Calories seem low with your workload Id consider adding a bit more,monitor closely and make adjustments as needed

In my opinion leave the var. Ive stated this before that I dont agree with this idea that seems to be repeated over and over again about test only first cycles
Keep the var, id try to push the doses to even 40 mg but the pumps may affect your training. Another nice compound wouod be to add cardarine it greatly increases endurance with out a gross stimulant feel. You will really notice it and i think is one of the most under rated compounds.
 
Sorry to rain on the love parade here.

But I have some serious issues with this run.

Please take it as CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and not hating my friend.
Trust me please and do your own research on what I'm typing.

1. Ostarine for PCT
Fuck no, just fuck no.
Ostarine WILL suppress you, it just will. dont listen to Dylan the Twink Gemelli.
Ostarine is meant to BRIDGE between final pin and PCT, since you will lose some decent mass at this time.
It is out of your system quickly, so STOP it 2 days before starting PCT
PLEASE do not run a suppressive drug during PCT

2. HCG
yes, 500 Iu minimum 1x per week while on cycle.
My reasoning:
Some guys shut down HARD
Some guys recover with ZERO PCT
you dont know which one you are
Please be kn the safe side
2. B) Hit the HCG HARD the week before PCT starts.
Here is why:
It will crush any micro remaining LH, this will help kickstart on the PCT and make sure you T portion of HPTA is healthy and reactive to the HP restart.
This could be 500 EOD... or personally, I use 500 ED for 10 days.

3)
Front load your PCT
The Hypothalamus and Pituitary react well to shock.
ALSO the half life is LONG in clomid and Nolva, so you actually will not feel any different from the frontload... will REALLY help you recover.
Day one of PCT should look like this.

80mg Nolva
150 Clomid.

Then continue with your protocol as planned out
Is it extreme?
Yes
But like I said before, let's see how you recover... some guysamazing... some guys get fucked.

4)Ditch the Aromasin during PCT
If anything, take as needed.

Aromasin should not be "Planned out"
For example... a buddy of mine takes 12.5 EOD on a 250 test base.

I take ZERO off of 500mg Test

See how your body reacts, trust your judgement and get bloods.

The smartest thing you can do with your first PCT run, is to play it safe, you dont know how yoyou will react.If you come back with higher natural testthan before?
Then do @ABMonkey s PCT for your future cycles.

I've just seen thisstuff go bad before


I'll also agree with @3ml Dont be worried about throwing some extra Var in there.
Cardarine is great for recomps too
Lovely compound.


I know it's long response...
But stay safe out there brother
 
silentlemon1011 said:
Sorry to rain on the love parade here.

But I have some serious issues with this run.

Please take it as CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and not hating my friend.
Trust me please and do your own research on what I'm typing.

1. Ostarine for PCT
Fuck no, just fuck no.
Ostarine WILL suppress you, it just will. dont listen to Dylan the Twink Gemelli.
Ostarine is meant to BRIDGE between final pin and PCT, since you will lose some decent mass at this time.
It is out of your system quickly, so STOP it 2 days before starting PCT
PLEASE do not run a suppressive drug during PCT

2. HCG
yes, 500 Iu minimum 1x per week while on cycle.
My reasoning:
Some guys shut down HARD
Some guys recover with ZERO PCT
you dont know which one you are
Please be kn the safe side
2. B) Hit the HCG HARD the week before PCT starts.
Here is why:
It will crush any micro remaining LH, this will help kickstart on the PCT and make sure you T portion of HPTA is healthy and reactive to the HP restart.
This could be 500 EOD... or personally, I use 500 ED for 10 days.

3)
Front load your PCT
The Hypothalamus and Pituitary react well to shock.
ALSO the half life is LONG in clomid and Nolva, so you actually will not feel any different from the frontload... will REALLY help you recover.
Day one of PCT should look like this.

80mg Nolva
150 Clomid.

Then continue with your protocol as planned out
Is it extreme?
Yes
But like I said before, let's see how you recover... some guysamazing... some guys get fucked.

4)Ditch the Aromasin during PCT
If anything, take as needed.

Aromasin should not be "Planned out"
For example... a buddy of mine takes 12.5 EOD on a 250 test base.

I take ZERO off of 500mg Test

See how your body reacts, trust your judgement and get bloods.

The smartest thing you can do with your first PCT run, is to play it safe, you dont know how yoyou will react.If you come back with higher natural testthan before?
Then do @ABMonkey s PCT for your future cycles.

I've just seen thisstuff go bad before


I'll also agree with @3ml Dont be worried about throwing some extra Var in there.
Cardarine is great for recomps too
Lovely compound.


I know it's long response...
But stay safe out there brother
Click to expand...



Sone great advice here
I never even read the pct part so good catch on the ostarine
 
3ml said:
Sone great advice here
I never even read the pct part so good catch on the ostarine
Click to expand...

Thanks brother.
As a guy who SHOULD be on TRT
I take my PCT seriously.

I literally cant afford to lose Any test lol

Until I have my kids next year...
Then its B&C for me.

But in the mean time, I've been able to maintain my low test after lots of cycles with no real drop.

PCT sucks
Cant wait for blast and cruise
 
20mg of var is too low a dose in my opinion. I’m not one to run high doses but I bet the anavar is just going to waste that low. I would recommend doubling the dose for a max of 10 weeks
 
I’d also like to point out that with clean eating you won’t blow up like you might think especially at 2000 cals. You’ll fill out your shirts better and people may notice a change but that’s about it. Enjoy the ride cuz you only get a first cycle once and from the looks of it you’ve planned things fairly well for success.
 
Everything looks good to me as far as doses and compounds. Dont expect alot from anavar or ostarine thou. I currently came off everything after 3 years and I would never do it without hcg again. Made a huge difference for me. But if its your first cycle you should bounce back quick. Even without it. The only thing I would change is the 2000 calories. You should have that many calories in you by 10am
 
silentlemon1011 said:
Sorry to rain on the love parade here.

But I have some serious issues with this run.

Please take it as CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and not hating my friend.
Trust me please and do your own research on what I'm typing.

1. Ostarine for PCT
Fuck no, just fuck no.
Ostarine WILL suppress you, it just will. dont listen to Dylan the Twink Gemelli.
Ostarine is meant to BRIDGE between final pin and PCT, since you will lose some decent mass at this time.
It is out of your system quickly, so STOP it 2 days before starting PCT
PLEASE do not run a suppressive drug during PCT

2. HCG
yes, 500 Iu minimum 1x per week while on cycle.
My reasoning:
Some guys shut down HARD
Some guys recover with ZERO PCT
you dont know which one you are
Please be kn the safe side
2. B) Hit the HCG HARD the week before PCT starts.
Here is why:
It will crush any micro remaining LH, this will help kickstart on the PCT and make sure you T portion of HPTA is healthy and reactive to the HP restart.
This could be 500 EOD... or personally, I use 500 ED for 10 days.

3)
Front load your PCT
The Hypothalamus and Pituitary react well to shock.
ALSO the half life is LONG in clomid and Nolva, so you actually will not feel any different from the frontload... will REALLY help you recover.
Day one of PCT should look like this.

80mg Nolva
150 Clomid.

Then continue with your protocol as planned out
Is it extreme?
Yes
But like I said before, let's see how you recover... some guysamazing... some guys get fucked.

4)Ditch the Aromasin during PCT
If anything, take as needed.

Aromasin should not be "Planned out"
For example... a buddy of mine takes 12.5 EOD on a 250 test base.

I take ZERO off of 500mg Test

See how your body reacts, trust your judgement and get bloods.

The smartest thing you can do with your first PCT run, is to play it safe, you dont know how yoyou will react.If you come back with higher natural testthan before?
Then do @ABMonkey s PCT for your future cycles.

I've just seen thisstuff go bad before


I'll also agree with @3ml Dont be worried about throwing some extra Var in there.
Cardarine is great for recomps too
Lovely compound.


I know it's long response...
But stay safe out there brother
Click to expand...
I have to disagree regarding the PCT. I dont think he needs to frontload & I definitely dont think he needs clomid for a cycle like this.

Clomid's list of sides is pretty huge and whilst some people get along just fine with it, the vast majority seem to get one side or another. Nolva on the on the other is very user friendly.

Including clomid in the PCT is unnecessary for a cycle this and has the potential for him to feel like crap throughout PCT.
 
ABMonkey said:
I have to disagree regarding the PCT. I dont think he needs to frontload & I definitely dont think he needs clomid for a cycle like this.

Clomid's list of sides is pretty huge and whilst some people get along just fine with it, the vast majority seem to get one side or another. Nolva on the on the other is very user friendly.

Including clomid in the PCT is unnecessary for a cycle this and has the potential for him to feel like crap throughout PCT.
Click to expand...
Clomid should not be an issue at 50mg...
 
ABMonkey said:
I have to disagree regarding the PCT. I dont think he needs to frontload & I definitely dont think he needs clomid for a cycle like this.

Clomid's list of sides is pretty huge and whilst some people get along just fine with it, the vast majority seem to get one side or another. Nolva on the on the other is very user friendly.

Including clomid in the PCT is unnecessary for a cycle this and has the potential for him to feel like crap throughout PCT.
Click to expand...


Okay, I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt that you have some science and research behind your statement.
Thus I will show you the research behind my opinion


First Front loading

[/URL]

This CLEARLY states
half life of clomid is 6 days.
THERFORE.
Front loading, will not make you FEEL any different from just your usual DAILY dose
The SAME applies with Nolvadex.

You will reach full saturation at day 1 as opposed to day 4..
Making the PCT "hocking to your HPTA axis.

Therefor the frontload is

1)
Non Harmful in terms of quantities
2)
Does a better job of restart.
3) Allowsthe compound to build up quickly and shock the Hypothalamus and pituitary.


You'll see I used the term shock, a lot there

Here is why.

(I got this information from @Old from Meso, who is paraphrasing from GRAYS ANATOMY)

  • The hypothalamus is part of the brain ... it is brain tissue (neurons).
  • Neurons require continual stimulation (receiving pulses from other axions to their dendrites) or they will die.
  • The brain THRIVES on CHANGE.
  • The greater (sudden+magnitude) the change the greater the brain reacts.
  • Regulatory systems monitor changes and respond accordingly
  • When part of the hypothalamus is nearly shutdown, it adapts to functioning in that new range of continually elevated E2 and/or androgens.
  • If one waits for natural production to restore without intervention, it can take months, or years, or never truly never returns to healthy ranges. Gradual feedback signals result in gradual, lackluster responses.
  • When the hypothalamus receives a sudden, dramatic change in E2 and/or T, it adapts more strongly. IMO that is why front-loading the first day of SERM(s) is important.
  • So perhaps the sudden change with triptorelin (as seen in Figure 1) incited the hypothalamus to respond more quickly to low E2 and T
As such

it is VITALLY imports t to front load and NON Harmfull to do so.

Moving on to the nolvadex Clomid combination

They have been proven to be SYNERGISTIC in nature.
with a much better ability to ..

1)Shock the hypothalamus specifically

2)Assist with pituitary restart.


This Pct I laid out, was NOT MY IDEA

It was created by a team of 4 AAS using and research doctors.
One of which is the Legendary Michael scally.
(Whom the protocol is named after)

With decades of research a d knowledge behind them.

I'm sorry @ABMonkey but basic pharmacokinetics disagrees and Every research study disagreeswith your opinion.

YOU may have a bullet proof HPTA ... but not everyone does.

If he gets to HIGHER than pre cycle levels...
Them sure
Switch to a Nolva only cycle.


Until then, an opinion is NO substitute for research and teams of MDs
 
One final note.

I'm currently helping a friend to get through his low T.

He believed in "Nolva only" PCT and that he didnt need Clomid or HCG.

After 3 Test and Var only cycles.

This is his bloodwork

20200207_161854.jpg


You do NOT want to be in his shoes.

Erectile dysfunction as a result of low T is real.
So is TRT at 30 due to abuse
(He was mid level before gear)

@ABMonkey

Just because YOU have excellent genetics and the ability to recover well, does not mean everyone has.

It is best to err on the side of...
Caution
Science
Medical research

Than it is to formulate an opinion based on your own function.

To advise anything but the safest and most REASEARCHED route is irresponsible
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top