Diluting gear !

#21
Ok your just argueing for the sake of arguing and trying to show your science / chemical knowledge, I was speaking on a normal level cuz I’m not going to become a chemistry teacher every time I answer something. Because the truth is, some things in bodybuilding that science would indicate works or doesn’t work, has the opposite effect in real life. And some things in bodybuilding go against what the science says and doesn’t really make sense, but it happens and people call it bro science but it’s actuallt just an accumulation of knowledge that people in the juice game come to know after awhile. Such as saying cyp and enth are the same... or saying some labs just put enth and prop together and call it sust, or 5mg f winny in a 20mg anavae tab and call it var. or the fact that you can take 2 people, one take Serostim and the other underground hgh, and give them however much they need until they both have the same blood levels yet the guy in Serostim will grow exponentially greater. Even though the science will say their the same. The great thing about bodybuilding is that you can’t just put your nose in a book and come out knowing more than a guy whose been in the game for decades. I’ll take real life knowledge and experience over textbook knowledge in bodybuilding any day. Some of the greatest and smartest body builders on the planet have never picked up a science textbook. Juan Morel can’t even read but I’d take his diet tips over a nutritionist with a PHD if I wanted to lose weight or add muscle. So if your relying on science for everything your going to be greatly disappointed with your results in bodybuilding.


If they give the same effect, and no one can tell the difference and they’re used interchangeable then yes, it’s acceptable to say their the same. If you want to get super technical just to show ur knowledge and pick at every inconsistency in someone’s statement then yea your right their not the exact same. People say yams and squash are the same... id take that as accurate cuz I’m not going to get picky about things and turn this board into a science class. So sure your right, on a scientific level where you want to pick at the differences, even though it makes no difference, yeah your right.... but I’m still gonna tell people their the same, cuz not everyone cares about the molecular structure lmao.

As for cyp not being accurately dosed because most labs can’t get it to hold at 250mg. That’s correct because I’ve spoken to a half dozen labs who have all told me they can’t get it to hold at 250. I’ve also seen posts of people who got their cyp tested and it was 175-200 not 250. So the knowledge I’ve accumulated over a decade in the juice game, is where I get off saying that. And I would put money on the fact that if u got 20 labs “cyp 250” and tested it, most if not all of them would be below 200. There’s a reason the pharmacy grade stuff is never dosed about 200mg even though some men take more than 200per week and would benefit from a 250 or 300mg shot, where they coukenjust take 1cc per week, but the doctors give them more than 1cc , like 1.2 or 1.3 is what a few people I know get, I personally am prescribed just 1.1 per week so a higher mg bottle would be beneficial but we don’t get that because the pharmaceutical stuff is only made 200.

The ONLY difference that’s noticeable to the naked eye is that some people claim they hold more water on cyp. Once again, personal experience, people I’ve spoken with the last ten years, and even some pros or amateurs that have blogs or YouTube channels have made this claim. So this , like my other claim, comes from experience and talking with people.

Nice deflection. But it work work here. You can’t cherry pick information, semi apply it where it fits for you and then call it an argument.

You also can’t discount science just because you don’t understand it. I recognize why you attack it though. Still despite what you say, it doesn’t discredit it and the fact that your statements are flawed and incorrect.

And I’m sorry..... as you said in your post.... personal experience accounts for a whole lot. I agree with that. I also will say that one of the biggest mistakes most do with the limited amount of science that can be applied in this area is take it and try to apply it in a bodybuilding or human scenario when that was not what was looked at or worked on.... so most times that doesn’t work. However that is not the case here. So again it doesn’t fit.

So when you say things like.... well the guys I talk to told me..... sorry.... hearsay and speculation. You have no independent knowledge of such things by your own admissions and are only parroting information others have told you. And just because an amateur or pro says something on YouTube, doesn’t make it correct. You know this.

Maybe you should think about things like what I’ve been actually a part of over my time and experience. Lol. If you knew more about the history here, you might better understand why this is really funny. You may also wish to consider that what I am saying comes from first hand actual experience and not from what others have told me and/or is well documented somewhere.

Regardless, I know nothing I will ever tell you mean anything so carry on sir. It really doesn’t matter and Im growing increasingly tired these days.
 

Sorbate

Noob
Trusted Member
#22
lol, does everyone know the brewers of a bunch of labs. Every time I hear someone use that as an argument I cringe. That there is an argument loser.

It is so difficult to say cyp causes more bloat than eth unless it was done in a double blind study. I’ve never had a cycle be the same twice, even using the exact same amount of gear from the same lab. What you eat and drink can make a huge difference, even the time of year. I always bloat more in the summer than winter. Maybe I drink an extra bottle of Gatorade eod?

Will a long ester test have certain people hold more water? Maybe. I’ve gone on before about the whole test must go up and down theory or you get higher estrogen conversion and so on. Cyp and eth are so close in half life’s I’m not sure if it would make a difference.

And a decade of gear useage is only a start. I’ve been running it for 6 years and still know shit. You really only get in 2 cycles a years, and even tiny differences can yield different results, nevermind your training and diet. No way I could pretend to know a lot. I may have a basic idea that could guide someone in a particular direction, but in the end until you run it in your body, one has no idea what it will exactly do,
.
Anyhow @mikerock quit buying your gear overseas. Not one of the board favourites on any board, or the popular talked about Canadian labs are having problems with pip. Shit right now I bet the favourites on every board are doing a great job, because they are all after the same market share. And it’s not that huge. It’s a great time to be getting gear. Just don’t buy some unknown name because you steroids dealer at the gym tells you it’s great without looking at reviews.
On here and CJM the reviews can be trusted. There is no censorship occurring. Yeah there will be favourites, but read a bit and you’ll figure it all out,
 
#23
Incorrect, shooting a substance into your body should always cause some sort f discomfort. Cyp isn’t able to hold at 250mg so any cyp dosed at 250 (if the lab actually puts 250 in it) then it’s going to have a lot of other things in it to make it hold at 250 which will cause pain. If you want pain free cyp, buy from a lab with a bad reputation because their cyp will be labeled at 250 yet it will only have 175-200.

Saying cyp should never hurt, or any injection should never hurt, is totally wrong. Normally I agree with things you say but this is wrong.

This whole issue has such an easy fix to it, the guy needs to just use enth. Most people find cyp makes them hold more water anyway. There’s literally no difference in the two drugs except the half life of cyp is 10.5 days and enth is 12. My doctor switches me between the two every couple years, probably just giving me whichever drug gives him more kickbacks for prescribing it ... point is their identical. Nobody out there can honestly say they could tell the difference if I snuck into their drug cabinet and switched all their cyp with enth and didn’t tell them , they’d never know.

OP (original poster) could have just asked for enth next time and avoided all this useless headache. To be honest, most labs out there use enth powder anyway and put that in their cyp and enth. So seems like this could have been solved soooo easily without this guy making such a huge deal. Just order enth. Period. No issue needed to be made.
What? are you serious ?Why should I switch from something that I use for many years?Useless headache ,big deal ?yeah it is a big deal to me .That's what I like and want and that's what I'm gonna get !Geez what are you for real ?
 
#24
lol, does everyone know the brewers of a bunch of labs. Every time I hear someone use that as an argument I cringe. That there is an argument loser.

It is so difficult to say cyp causes more bloat than eth unless it was done in a double blind study. I’ve never had a cycle be the same twice, even using the exact same amount of gear from the same lab. What you eat and drink can make a huge difference, even the time of year. I always bloat more in the summer than winter. Maybe I drink an extra bottle of Gatorade eod?

Will a long ester test have certain people hold more water? Maybe. I’ve gone on before about the whole test must go up and down theory or you get higher estrogen conversion and so on. Cyp and eth are so close in half life’s I’m not sure if it would make a difference.

And a decade of gear useage is only a start. I’ve been running it for 6 years and still know shit. You really only get in 2 cycles a years, and even tiny differences can yield different results, nevermind your training and diet. No way I could pretend to know a lot. I may have a basic idea that could guide someone in a particular direction, but in the end until you run it in your body, one has no idea what it will exactly do,
.
Anyhow @mikerock quit buying your gear overseas. Not one of the board favourites on any board, or the popular talked about Canadian labs are having problems with pip. Shit right now I bet the favourites on every board are doing a great job, because they are all after the same market share. And it’s not that huge. It’s a great time to be getting gear. Just don’t buy some unknown name because you steroids dealer at the gym tells you it’s great without looking at reviews.
On here and CJM the reviews can be trusted. There is no censorship occurring. Yeah there will be favourites, but read a bit and you’ll figure it all out,
First of all my friend ,you have to re read my post !I said, I used to get stuff from the UK .Secondly, the stuff I got was not from a guy ,from another guy and another guy from the gym !It's from a well known lab here in Canada ,that you too as well source from .I will not say the name ,Big and Bull know who they are and stepped in for me and I really thank them for it!I was contacted by another one of their rep and he did admit they had an issue with one of their batches !They are gonna replace my stuff!Defective batch ,you do know what that is ?It does happen from time to time because it's a UGL .Problem is solved !
 

Sorbate

Noob
Trusted Member
#25
First of all my friend ,you have to re read my post !I said, I used to get stuff from the UK .Secondly, the stuff I got was not from a guy ,from another guy and another guy from the gym !It's from a well known lab here in Canada ,that you too as well source from .I will not say the name ,Big and Bull know who they are and stepped in for me and I really thank them for it!I was contacted by another one of their rep and he did admit they had an issue with one of their batches !They are gonna replace my stuff!Defective batch ,you do know what that is ?It does happen from time to time because it's a UGL .Problem is solved !
Glad you got it figure out bud.
 
#28
https://generationiron.com/nick-trigili-steroid-esters/

For anyone that doesn’t want to click the link it says:
Test E - 70mg actual test per 100mg shot
Test C - 69mg actual test per 100mg shot

Is this not one molecule / one gram different?

I’ve used this as a guideline for years , as have many others.

So asking strictly from a position of someone looking to learn and better myself in my future cycles; please enlighten me on how these aren’t one testosterone milligram apart?

Because clearly I’ve been mislead my whole life? And so has generation iron?
You’re missing the point entirely sir. Your head is in the wrong space a little I think.

Sorry I don’t want to be rude but I hope I can help clear this up a little bit so we can move on. I’m short when I speak.

The arrangement of the compound is entirely different from a molecular standpoint. In the case of cypionate it has a ring on the end of the structure which is responsible for its extended retention time in the muscle (fat) not so much the carbons themselves. The ester attaches controls the depot rate into the blood. The testosterone itself has nothing to do with it. Without ester, the testosterone would start to be taken up into the blood and be circulated almost immediately. With the ester attached, it doesn’t. Generally the more carbons in the ester the longer a steroid will sit in the muscle and depot. This is because the more carbons there are, the more fat soluble the steroid will be and will be retained to depot longer. Notice I said steroid and not just ester. Molecular arrangement also affects this as well, and in the case of cyp, this is true. Mostly because of that ring structure at the end.

These are important because when you look at the compound, you look at the compound in entirety. Not just the portion of which is testosterone.

No one disputed the mg:mg amount of testosterone was largely different between the two compounds. they are different and you can’t say they are the same based on the mg:mg content of testosterone. the esterfication of the steroid itself changes the whole compound meaning that since the ester is different the compound is different and that is why it behaves a little differently when it’s made and in how it is released to the body.

You also provided the molecular weights of the testosterone components of the compounds, but didn’t of the entire compounds. Their molecular weights vary by more that one mg. Still not much difference, but different. About 13mg. They are different compounds. Assuming test only? That doesn’t work because you’re only considering part of the picture. the bottom line is... they are different even if they contain almost identical amounts of testosterone.

I hope that helps solve the predicament so we can move on.
 
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#29
No you are diminishing it because you don’t understand.

.....And still cherry picking pieces of things I say to fit your argument.... an argument that holds no water because it doesn’t work that way.

They are not the same. That is similar to saying acetone and MEK are the same because they are only different by a carbon and couple hydrogens.

Maybe a better analogy is.... Would you say oral steroids then are the same as others that aren’t orally active? The only difference is an added alkyl group at the C17. Yet that changes the entire game doesn’t it?

As I said but you seem to not want to acknowledge... you change the structure, you change the properties. You add an ester the way the compound behaves change too.

All you are saying is test is test. That’s all that means. Yes it is. I never disputed that nor was speaking to that in the first place... so I’m not sure how this is some revelation that proves your point. Lol.

I’m trying to play nice in the sandbox. So I’m going to try to keep this civil...However if you want to continue to be a condescending cunt I can do that too.

And regardless......Either way.... you’re still going to be wrong.
 
#31
Yeah and there’s a lot of other information regarding this thread that your not privy to as well, that would make you second guess what you ir anyone else has said. But as you know since your king of the forums, some things just cannot be said. I’ll let you have the last word, I’m pretty much done here
I’ve never been anything but helpful with you before and would still be in a heartbeat. Fuck it’s just a dumb argument.

If there are issues that need addressed then come forward. No matter how much of a cunt I can be in an argument, I’ll always help out anyone where or when it’s needed.

So if there is something up that needs attention either pm me or another staff member if you feel better with them after all this.

This was just about the points being argued.... nothing more and nothing less.
 
#32
Let’s lay this thread to bed shall we lol. But in the future I hope that any forum members refrain from posting their word for word conversations with reps. There is an understood code of silence, and understood confidentiality agreement between customers and reps.

When I email a lab I expect them to keep my emails secretive and in return I don’t ever post their emails in public so in the future, I hope I don’t see anyone posting the word-for-word conversations between customers and labs. That’s a breech or privacy and I don’t think labs or customers would be very happy if things continued the way this OP went about posting his conversation with his rep publicly.

Lets keep things confidential in the future shall we? Can we all agree that conversations between labs and customers should never be copy-pasted publicly?
There is, in fact, more to this story folks.

I was happy to get a good argument out of it but sadly this has come at a cost and that is awful. Magic and I have put aside our differences and I much better understand his frustrations.

He is correct. None of those conversations should have been posted. I was too set on arguing to even notice that. Credit to him for picking up on it and trying to shed light on it.

He is correct here. Conversations like that should never be posted.
 
#33
Let’s lay this thread to bed shall we lol. But in the future I hope that any forum members refrain from posting their word for word conversations with reps. There is an understood code of silence, and understood confidentiality agreement between customers and reps.

When I email a lab I expect them to keep my emails secretive and in return I don’t ever post their emails in public so in the future, I hope I don’t see anyone posting the word-for-word conversations between customers and labs. That’s a breech or privacy and I don’t think labs or customers would be very happy if things continued the way this OP went about posting his conversation with his rep publicly.

Lets keep things confidential in the future shall we? Can we all agree that conversations between labs and customers should never be copy-pasted publicly?
There were no names mentioned of either a lab or a rep !It was clear the rep didn't know what he was talking about and brushing me off?So where is the problem?If I did something wrong then I apologize !
 
#34
The rep knew exactly what e was talking about, he has first hand information from the lab. CYP CANT HOLD AT 250MG , unless there’s massive amounts of BA in there.... you don’t know what your talking about if you think it can ... you don’t know more than reps, reps have direct access to the chemists, if you only knew what goes on behind the scenes you wouldn’t be making such bold statements like the rep didn’t know what he’s talking about. Everything he said is 100% accurate no one knows the lab, and the way that labs gear is made, better than the reps. Period.
So putting more BA in a product is a good thing ?BAHHAHAHHAA Priceless!
 

Magic

Active member
Trusted Member
#35
So putting more BA in a product is a good thing ?BAHHAHAHHAA Priceless!
Ok now we’re switching into home brew arguments and we’re going to get 100 new people chiming in...

anyways, u said “So more BA is a good thing? Hahahahahah”.... as if I’m some idiot that doesn't know what I’m talking about? Just cuz you’ve spent the last 2 days on google learning about brewing so you can sound smart over here? So, ummmm yeah it is, BA is good, without it your gear is a welcome environment for infections? I’d rather have an extra 1-2 % BA in my products than 1-2 % less? Would you rather have a slightly sore arm for a day or risk an infection? 1 person in 1000 may complain but that person is usually soft as dog shit and shouldn’t have strayed from anavar only cycles :) BA isn’t even what causes all of the injection pain, it causes some, but there’s other factors it’s not just BA. Especially gear that isn’t heated during the brew process (cyp doesn’t need to be, like EQ), unless you heat your gear for like 12 hours and even then there’s only so much heat can do to kill microorganisms.

Anyway I hope this whole page gets deleted it got off track real fast and now we’ve got some everyday user who can’t handle a little pip, trying to tell people who know what they’re talking about... how gear is supposed to be brewed / how it’s supposed to feel / how it’s suppsoed to be sold / and giving a crash course in customer courtesy lol.

You win, I hope you create your own lab one day so you can show us all how it’s done.

I’m out of here ✌️✌️
 
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#36
and giving a crash course in customer courtesy lol. Something you know nothing of!LOL
 

Funnyman

Well-known member
Trusted Member
#37
I use eq to dilute my shots if there sore.
 
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