Bloodwork and gyno

C

Cdot

New member
Hey all,
Started trt about 3 months ago. I didn't quite need it, just looking for free test really. My testosterone level was 17 at that point but I tested low on my next test. Most likely due to no sleep, full stomach, took blood test in the evening, etc.. The doc prescribed 100mg per week. After about a month and a half, 2 months I started to develop gyno on my right side. I brought it up to my doctor, but she didn't seem to have a solution, and I didn't want to press the issue because hey, free testosterone! I was also feeling pretty decent, so I decided (on my own) to up the dose to 200mg of testosterone a week and added 300mg of Deca. I've also been taking 40mg a day of Nolvadex for the last month. The gyno has pretty much stayed the same on my right side, but I've started to get a tiny bit behind my left nipple now. I'm wondering a couple things... Could it be bad Nolvadex, or should I add something like Arimidex as well? Looking at staying on 200mg of test, just really want the gyno gone! Any advice would be appreciated!
I also didn't have full bloodwork done prior, but this is my latest....
Total protein 72
ALT 21
Triglycerides 1.39
Cholesterol 5.04
Albumin 40
Glucose 5.1
Bilirubin 11
PSA 0.7
FSH 0.3
LH0.3
Estradiol 287
Prolactin 8.9
SHBG 12
Testosterone total 41.3
Testosterone free 1555
Lp(a) 13
 
Your estrogen is crazy high - prob from too much test converting. How often are you injecting?

Some people add in Raloxifine for gyno but it would make more sense to remove/lower your dose vs. adding another compound in.
 
bboy123 said:
Your estrogen is crazy high - prob from too much test converting. How often are you injecting?

Some people add in Raloxifine for gyno but it would make more sense to remove/lower your dose vs. adding another compound in.
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Im pinning twice a week. Monday and Thursday.
I started to get the gyno on 100mg a week...
 
lol, the things we do when we don’t have the extperience yet.

Deca is one of the steroids known to produce gyno.

So you are starting to get gyno, then up your dose, then to finish your nipples off you toss on 300 mg of deca, bwahaaaa.

I’m sorry it’s not funny, but it is to me, because it’s a mistake we make.

I would say your nolva is working, but it can only block so much of that extra estrogen.

Adex can help.

But at this point, since I wouldn’t want issues with gyno the rest of my life, I would drop everything except the 100 mg of test a week, take Adex 1/2 mg eod for a week then 1/2 mg every time you inject till the gyno starts to shrink, or you crash your estrogen.

Then I would only do the 100 mg of test for a while until your nipples calm down.
If you are fat, now would be a good time to get rid of it, higher fat levels create more estrogen. Get yourself down to 14/16% bodyfat, use calipers, you can buy them off Amazon.

Anyhow, I got gyno from deca once, in combination with a fair bit of test, then let my estrogen get out of hand. I did what I mentioned above, went down to trt levels for 4 months, am now more careful not to let my estrogen creep up, and have had no issues with gyno since. And I had a pretty decent lump under my right nipple (think it was right (that was 9 years ago)
 
Sorbate said:
lol, the things we do when we don’t have the extperience yet.

Deca is one of the steroids known to produce gyno.

So you are starting to get gyno, then up your dose, then to finish your nipples off you toss on 300 mg of deca, bwahaaaa.

I’m sorry it’s not funny, but it is to me, because it’s a mistake we make.

I would say your nolva is working, but it can only block so much of that extra estrogen.

Adex can help.

But at this point, since I wouldn’t want issues with gyno the rest of my life, I would drop everything except the 100 mg of test a week, take Adex 1/2 mg eod for a week then 1/2 mg every time you inject till the gyno starts to shrink, or you crash your estrogen.

Then I would only do the 100 mg of test for a while until your nipples calm down.
If you are fat, now would be a good time to get rid of it, higher fat levels create more estrogen. Get yourself down to 14/16% bodyfat, use calipers, you can buy them off Amazon.

Anyhow, I got gyno from deca once, in combination with a fair bit of test, then let my estrogen get out of hand. I did what I mentioned above, went down to trt levels for 4 months, am now more careful not to let my estrogen creep up, and have had no issues with gyno since. And I had a pretty decent lump under my right nipple (think it was right (that was 9 years ago)
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I appreciate the advice!
It will be difficult to cut back so much after seeing the results over the last while. I managed to pack on 9lbs in two months. I also felt quite a bit better! Lol.
Also, not fat, probably a bit under weight at 6ft, 200lbs.
Would you suggest I keep taking the nolva with the Adex?
 
Don’t know I’ve never taken them together.

I know it sucks to come off. But sometimes you gotta let your body reset.

Or you can toss more drugs in, lol.

It’s like when guys try to balance their hot tubs, they keep tossing things in to get things correct, where sometimes it’s just easier just to drain it and start over.
 
Sorbate said:
Don’t know I’ve never taken them together.

I know it sucks to come off. But sometimes you gotta let your body reset.

Or you can toss more drugs in, lol.

It’s like when guys try to balance their hot tubs, they keep tossing things in to get things correct, where sometimes it’s just easier just to drain it and start over.
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Lol, fair enough.
 
Please put the measurement beside the numbers pmol/l or pg/ml as each lab is different. We can all take an educated guess based on the numbers but it is a guess.
I won't make fun of you but what are you thinking, you develop gyno so you double the dose and add in another compound which could send your prolactin higher and cause more problems.
If the guestimate is correct your estrogen is too high, and you have two choices or do both albeit you are under the care of a doctor and if she/he doesn't understand hormones, they should never have given you test. You can take an AI and reduce your estrogen by essentially killing it or you can take a SERM which will clog the receptors and the estrogen is still there but can't get to the receptors. Both are effective but Nolva did not fix this for you if I read right. If I developed Gyno, or lumps of any kind in the breast tissue - I would be at a doctor and surely the doctors understand what to take.
You have the option of taking a stronger SERM - Raloxifene which is often used.
Anyway, see a doctor. If you don't have the experience to deal with this, stop throwing shit at the problem and get a medical opinion. Sorbate may know his physiology and what to do from decades of use but not everyone does. You don't want this to be a chronic problem. The one time I thought I had gyno, they did an ultrasound and mammogram to check for cancer. It was not, and it wasn't gyno either and just subsided with time but the doctor was thorough and I never admitted to anything but prescribed TRT.

Good luck
 
Goldenrod said:
Please put the measurement beside the numbers pmol/l or pg/ml as each lab is different. We can all take an educated guess based on the numbers but it is a guess.
I won't make fun of you but what are you thinking, you develop gyno so you double the dose and add in another compound which could send your prolactin higher and cause more problems.
If the guestimate is correct your estrogen is too high, and you have two choices or do both albeit you are under the care of a doctor and if she/he doesn't understand hormones, they should never have given you test. You can take an AI and reduce your estrogen by essentially killing it or you can take a SERM which will clog the receptors and the estrogen is still there but can't get to the receptors. Both are effective but Nolva did not fix this for you if I read right. If I developed Gyno, or lumps of any kind in the breast tissue - I would be at a doctor and surely the doctors understand what to take.
You have the option of taking a stronger SERM - Raloxifene which is often used.
Anyway, see a doctor. If you don't have the experience to deal with this, stop throwing shit at the problem and get a medical opinion. Sorbate may know his physiology and what to do from decades of use but not everyone does. You don't want this to be a chronic problem. The one time I thought I had gyno, they did an ultrasound and mammogram to check for cancer. It was not, and it wasn't gyno either and just subsided with time but the doctor was thorough and I never admitted to anything but prescribed TRT.

Good luck
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Lol, I learned thru trial and error.

Only difference between what I did and a doctor is they will do bloods. (They all experiment because each person is different) But if you do the right thing and the lump shrinks, well don't need bloods to figure that out.

I bet the doctor he got his test prescription from will dump him as soon as they find out he ran more gear likely.

In this case that is why I recommended a reset.

Then when he goes back to trt for 8 weeks he can get bloods at the doctor and then see if he needs an aromatise inhibitor.

But in the end its up to him.
 
Goldenrod said:
Please put the measurement beside the numbers pmol/l or pg/ml as each lab is different. We can all take an educated guess based on the numbers but it is a guess.
I won't make fun of you but what are you thinking, you develop gyno so you double the dose and add in another compound which could send your prolactin higher and cause more problems.
If the guestimate is correct your estrogen is too high, and you have two choices or do both albeit you are under the care of a doctor and if she/he doesn't understand hormones, they should never have given you test. You can take an AI and reduce your estrogen by essentially killing it or you can take a SERM which will clog the receptors and the estrogen is still there but can't get to the receptors. Both are effective but Nolva did not fix this for you if I read right. If I developed Gyno, or lumps of any kind in the breast tissue - I would be at a doctor and surely the doctors understand what to take.
You have the option of taking a stronger SERM - Raloxifene which is often used.
Anyway, see a doctor. If you don't have the experience to deal with this, stop throwing shit at the problem and get a medical opinion. Sorbate may know his physiology and what to do from decades of use but not everyone does. You don't want this to be a chronic problem. The one time I thought I had gyno, they did an ultrasound and mammogram to check for cancer. It was not, and it wasn't gyno either and just subsided with time but the doctor was thorough and I never admitted to anything but prescribed TRT.

Good luck
Click to expand...

Goldenrod said:
Please put the measurement beside the numbers pmol/l or pg/ml as each lab is different. We can all take an educated guess based on the numbers but it is a guess.
I won't make fun of you but what are you thinking, you develop gyno so you double the dose and add in another compound which could send your prolactin higher and cause more problems.
If the guestimate is correct your estrogen is too high, and you have two choices or do both albeit you are under the care of a doctor and if she/he doesn't understand hormones, they should never have given you test. You can take an AI and reduce your estrogen by essentially killing it or you can take a SERM which will clog the receptors and the estrogen is still there but can't get to the receptors. Both are effective but Nolva did not fix this for you if I read right. If I developed Gyno, or lumps of any kind in the breast tissue - I would be at a doctor and surely the doctors understand what to take.
You have the option of taking a stronger SERM - Raloxifene which is often used.
Anyway, see a doctor. If you don't have the experience to deal with this, stop throwing shit at the problem and get a medical opinion. Sorbate may know his physiology and what to do from decades of use but not everyone does. You don't want this to be a chronic problem. The one time I thought I had gyno, they did an ultrasound and mammogram to check for cancer. It was not, and it wasn't gyno either and just subsided with time but the doctor was thorough and I never admitted to anything but prescribed TRT.

Good luck
Click to expand...
It was prescribed by an online doctor from a trt clinic. A local physician honored the decision and wrote me a script. Again, I had mentioned gyno to the local physician and it seemed like she really didn't know much about the trt, and wasn't forthcoming with treatment for the gyno. She did say they didn't prescribe Tamoxifen here. It seems that that is the case in a lot of parts of Canada. I did see a different doctor who ordered the bloodwork I posted. He suggested that I stop, as I didn't need trt to begin with. He said after stopping for around 3 months, if the gyno hadn't gone away on its own, he would recommend Tamoxifen. I don't believe that many doctors (here at least) have the foggiest. That is why I am here looking for help and advice. I did not start this journey just to simply give up...
 
Cdot said:
It was prescribed by an online doctor from a trt clinic. A local physician honored the decision and wrote me a script. Again, I had mentioned gyno to the local physician and it seemed like she really didn't know much about the trt, and wasn't forthcoming with treatment for the gyno. She did say they didn't prescribe Tamoxifen here. It seems that that is the case in a lot of parts of Canada. I did see a different doctor who ordered the bloodwork I posted. He suggested that I stop, as I didn't need trt to begin with. He said after stopping for around 3 months, if the gyno hadn't gone away on its own, he would recommend Tamoxifen. I don't believe that many doctors (here at least) have the foggiest. That is why I am here looking for help and advice. I did not start this journey just to simply give up...
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There are excellent docs who understand hormones/steroids and will speak openly about it. If the doctor can't prescribe it because they don't understand it (they definitely can prescribe it as it is a scrip medication and if they are a GP at minimum), then send you to an Endo who can.

Leave someone with gynomastecomia to see if it would go away, when there are recognized treatments makes no sense unless you are a pubescent boy. I assume you are not going through puberty.
Some gyno will go away in months to years for people going through puberty (example) - but who wants to wait years or months. You already had reasonable testosterone at 17 which is in the mid section of normal so why the doctor prescribed it, I don't understand unless she/he listened to your symptoms and thought you needed it anyway. If you leave it, many gyno cases get worse over time and your breast tissue becomes more sensitive if touched or moving around.
Drop everything except a low dose of TRT at minimum or better come off completely. Why did you double the testosterone dosage and add in 300 mg of Deca?
Just trying to grow? Drop the deca and go back to normal TRT. I expect the prescribing doctor will reduce your script or stop it when they see your bloodwork anyway. Most docs want you to be in the normal range for both total and free test. If estrogen is an issue, they usually prescribe something like adex or exemestane. Talk to your doctor who prescribed this but expect to have it stopped - they may not and may help but the first sign of gyno, I would be lowering any amount I was taking and getting blood done and taking an AI and SERM. I would also consult people who had similar problems which I never have so I never needed an AI or SERM yet but I generally don't take 500 mg of anything a week combined.
good luck - see your darn doctor and get this sorted out before you need surgery.
 
Ask your doc for tamoxifen. My docs pretty good for hearing me out if I have researched some options etc
 
Goldenrod said:
There are excellent docs who understand hormones/steroids and will speak openly about it. If the doctor can't prescribe it because they don't understand it (they definitely can prescribe it as it is a scrip medication and if they are a GP at minimum), then send you to an Endo who can.

Leave someone with gynomastecomia to see if it would go away, when there are recognized treatments makes no sense unless you are a pubescent boy. I assume you are not going through puberty.
Some gyno will go away in months to years for people going through puberty (example) - but who wants to wait years or months. You already had reasonable testosterone at 17 which is in the mid section of normal so why the doctor prescribed it, I don't understand unless she/he listened to your symptoms and thought you needed it anyway. If you leave it, many gyno cases get worse over time and your breast tissue becomes more sensitive if touched or moving around.
Drop everything except a low dose of TRT at minimum or better come off completely. Why did you double the testosterone dosage and add in 300 mg of Deca?
Just trying to grow? Drop the deca and go back to normal TRT. I expect the prescribing doctor will reduce your script or stop it when they see your bloodwork anyway. Most docs want you to be in the normal range for both total and free test. If estrogen is an issue, they usually prescribe something like adex or exemestane. Talk to your doctor who prescribed this but expect to have it stopped - they may not and may help but the first sign of gyno, I would be lowering any amount I was taking and getting blood done and taking an AI and SERM. I would also consult people who had similar problems which I never have so I never needed an AI or SERM yet but I generally don't take 500 mg of anything a week combined.
good luck - see your darn doctor and get this sorted out before you need surgery.
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You know deca was the only thing that gave me gyno.

I am running 500 mg of test right now with no ai. I can run tren with no worries either.

What I did worked for me. It shrank away completely and never came back after that.

The OP will likely always need an ai. He seems to be more sensitive.

But I have also never ran deca that high with high test, nor dbol.
 
Sorbate said:
You know deca was the only thing that gave me gyno.

I am running 500 mg of test right now with no ai. I can run tren with no worries either.

What I did worked for me. It shrank away completely and never came back after that.

The OP will likely always need an ai. He seems to be more sensitive.

But I have also never ran deca that high with high test, nor dbol.
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Same here. I ran 500 test / 20mg Anavar, then 800 test / 80mg Anavar / 75mg dbol, and now sust 250 and 20mg superdrol... All without gyno, acne, or any of the mentioned side effects.

Everyone is different.
 
torauntjemima said:
Same here. I ran 500 test / 20mg Anavar, then 800 test / 80mg Anavar / 75mg dbol, and now sust 250 and 20mg superdrol... All without gyno, acne, or any of the mentioned side effects.

Everyone is different.
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Shocked you didn't get sore nipples on 75 mg of dbol a day. I'd be lactating, lol.
 
Sorbate said:
Shocked you didn't get sore nipples on 75 mg of dbol a day. I'd be lactating, lol.
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I just considered it bunk gear. I didn't have any side effects, but I also didn't have any of the positives. Essentially no change. I am also sorta in the same boat with the superdrol. My strength went up a bit but not much else, same as the Anavar.

I trust the source, as I'm definitely not the only one here using it, so maybe I just don't respond much to orals.

/shrug
 
torauntjemima said:
I just considered it bunk gear. I didn't have any side effects, but I also didn't have any of the positives. Essentially no change. I am also sorta in the same boat with the superdrol. My strength went up a bit but not much else, same as the Anavar.

I trust the source, as I'm definitely not the only one here using it, so maybe I just don't respond much to orals.

/shrug
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That is shocking because dbol is fucking strong.

My friends don’t run it mainly because even though the growth and strength is second to none, the estrogen gain and sides like high blood pressure headaches and so on makes it tough to run.

You have to be able to ignore the brutal lethargic, you can fall asleep at a drop of a hat sides.

I have never had a cycle where I grew so much since. Mind you I was a noob and ignored the sides because I thought that is what steroids were about, no pain no gain.

I’d love to run it again, and I have some, but I need to prepare myself for the feeling. You are a god in the gym and a lethargic bag of crap the rest of the time. I used ephedrine to push thru.
 
Sorbate said:
That is shocking because dbol is fucking strong.

My friends don’t run it mainly because even though the growth and strength is second to none, the estrogen gain and sides like high blood pressure headaches and so on makes it tough to run.

You have to be able to ignore the brutal lethargic, you can fall asleep at a drop of a hat sides.

I have never had a cycle where I grew so much since. Mind you I was a noob and ignored the sides because I thought that is what steroids were about, no pain no gain.

I’d love to run it again, and I have some, but I need to prepare myself for the feeling. You are a god in the gym and a lethargic bag of crap the rest of the time. I used ephedrine to push thru.
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I will say that the superdrol makes me a bit lethargic and I DID gain like 8lbs, but I also increase my food intake, so who knows. I take preworkout and drink coffee throughout the day. I get tired periodically, but I always push through until bed time.

Dbol, nothing. Maybe I'll try it again /shrug
 
torauntjemima said:
I will say that the superdrol makes me a bit lethargic and I DID gain like 8lbs, but I also increase my food intake, so who knows. I take preworkout and drink coffee throughout the day. I get tired periodically, but I always push through until bed time.

Dbol, nothing. Maybe I'll try it again /shrug
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Don't we all push thru till bed time, lol.

I always have so many projects on the go, being tired just seems like a way of life.

Like the other day, I was tired, fell asleep on the couch after dinner at 8 for like an hour, then at 9:30 I forced myself awake then got up, and went and wired the outdoor speakers on the deck I had to get done, got finished by 10:30. My wife thought I was crazy. She always wonders how I go to sleep then get up and start working again, or go and train, lol.
 
.
Sorbate said:
Don't we all push thru till bed time, lol.

I always have so many projects on the go, being tired just seems like a way of life.

Like the other day, I was tired, fell asleep on the couch after dinner at 8 for like an hour, then at 9:30 I forced myself awake then got up, and went and wired the outdoor speakers on the deck I had to get done, got finished by 10:30. My wife thought I was crazy. She always wonders how I go to sleep then get up and start working again, or go and train, lol.
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My wife is no different. They can't understand our ability to fall asleep in seconds and wake back up to full work mode
 
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